Poll Where did Linnis gestate Andrew?

[TigerCat]

... Agreed!

Kes' ears are really pretty cool-looking, actually. They're sufficiently 'complicated,' with all their fiddly-bits, that they're kind of interesting. Which is why Jennifer Lien's putting the kibosh on them was sort of jolting. Little changes can make such a big difference, especially in such a short period of time. But once you get used to her long wig, it does make her seem more 'mature.' Like it's just another step in her natural development.

That's just it. When I first saw the long wig it was a good way to separate the 'current' Kes from the rest of the instances we saw her (I think it was during Before and After, but I could be wrong). When the wig stayed, I easily imagined a deleted scene where Kes decided she wanted to look a little more mature and hair is a good way to make a change. I could also imagine giving her a wig/haircut that still showed her ears poking, but that was before I learned about the ears giving her allergies.

[

... Agreed!]
And when Lien was 30, or pushing 30 whilst still on Voyager, you're right ... it might've come across as though she had held on to something too long. Namely her youth - unless she'd modified her image. But for the 3 years that she was on, Jennifer/Kes rocked the elf look. Of the female cast members, Roxann Dawson was the hottest of them. I'm not into blondes that much, really ... but Jennifer was a truly beautiful woman, in her day. Some very good casting on that show ...

Actually I meant Kes growing up and changing her looks, not Jennifer but you bring a good point. Jennifer's looks do determine Kes' as well.

 

[2takesfrakes]

When Andy was born, Kes was probably the hottest granny ... ever - even with that ... that wig. I have to say I didn't like Linnis' personality, though, I thought she was too low-key to be very interesting. And how her eyebrows were shaved just made her look wrong. Considering that Harry was Andy's father, I shouldn't be surprised, I guess, but Andy (or Drew, if you like) was a real geek. We were definitely looking at the end of the Tom/Kes bloodline, so at least we know we didn't miss out on anything, after him.

 

[TigerCat]

When Andy was born, Kes was probably the hottest granny ... ever - even with that ... that wig. I have to say I didn't like Linnis' personality, though, I thought she was too low-key to be very interesting. And how her eyebrows were shaved just made her look wrong. Considering that Harry was Andy's father, I shouldn't be surprised, I guess, but Andy (or Drew, if you like) was a real geek. We were definitely looking at the end of the Tom/Kes bloodline, so at least we know we didn't miss out on anything, after him.

Considering the only possible mate for Andrew would be Naomi Wildman, I'm not quite sure their offspring wouldn't be worse. Me being mean aside, Linnis was a good combination between Kes' maturity and conviction and Tom's recklessness and need to push his boundaries. But we saw her too little to make a correct impression, much like Andrew who looked like a teenager so he'd have to be, what, about 6 months old to a year? Kes was fully grown when she was 1 years old so Andrew had to be younger and more childlike that Kes ever was.

No, I think that I'd be interested in exploring that possible future. See Neelix go from general goofball with a good heart to more mature security officer, Chacotay using his authority to lead the ship and growing to be a good captain, the Doctor having assistants/fellow doctors in the sickbay etc.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Ehhh ... I've always been relatively indifferent about Kathryn, but I wouldn't want to see Voyager captained by anyone else, not even Chakotay -- and he's like my favourite character on the show. Though, I must say, her death in "Before & After" really didn't have much of an impact.

It was just like, "Oh! The Captain's dead." Not like in "Coda" where her dying is given such gravitas. Milking it, for ALL it was worth, like with Harry's rambling on about eating berries with The Good Captain and getting berry stains all over his mouth, like a 4 year old ... ha! Doesn't that make you misty?

Despite Drew's unfortunate parentage and casting, frankly, I like "Before & After," once it starts, in earnest. Tom's story was moving, I must say, when he talked about how losing B'Elanna hurt him so bad ... and Kes' $aving him from all of that despair and hopelessness. And to see Kes warming up to him, in each "leap" was sweet, especially as she kept getting more attractive, with each successive jump ...

 

[TigerCat]

Ehhh ... I've always been relatively indifferent about Kathryn, but I wouldn't want to see Voyager captained by anyone else, not even Chakotay -- and he's like my favourite character on the show. Though, I must say, her death in "Before & After" really didn't have much of an impact.

It was just like, "Oh! The Captain's dead." Not like in "Coda" where her dying is given such gravitas. Milking it, for ALL it was worth, like with Harry's rambling on about eating berries with The Good Captain and getting berry stains all over his mouth, like a 4 year old ... ha! Doesn't that make you misty?

Despite Drew's unfortunate parentage and casting, frankly, I like "Before & After," once it starts, in earnest. Tom's story was moving, I must say, when he talked about how losing B'Elanna hurt him so bad ... and Kes' $aving him from all of that despair and hopelessness. And to see Kes warming up to him, in each "leap" was sweet, especially as she kept getting more attractive, with each successive jump ...

That's because the deaths were an afterthought to what Kes was going through. In Coda, the entire episode is about Janeway's death and it is meant to make us weep, like you said. That's why I said that if we spent time exploring the possible future (if the episode was a two parter for instance), the emotional strings would be pulled. As it was, almost as soon as we established what this moment in time was like and formed a theory as to what was happening to Kes, we jumped further back in time until Kes reached her conception.

What I like about the episode is that it's well acted, the storyline isn't absurd, the future it shows, while bleak, is fairly interesting and, as a cherry on top, we got a brief look into how Kes would be in the future.

 

[Sophie74656]

That's because the deaths were an afterthought to what Kes was going through. In Coda, the entire episode is about Janeway's death and it is meant to make us weep, like you said. That's why I said that if we spent time exploring the possible future (if the episode was a two parter for instance), the emotional strings would be pulled. As it was, almost as soon as we established what this moment in time was like and formed a theory as to what was happening to Kes, we jumped further back in time until Kes reached her conception.

What I like about the episode is that it's well acted, the storyline isn't absurd, the future it shows, while bleak, is fairly interesting and, as a cherry on top, we got a brief look into how Kes would be in the future.

I agree with that. You knew this was an alternate timeline episode and their deaths would not be a permanent thing.

 

[TigerCat]

I agree with that. You knew this was an alternate timeline episode and their deaths would not be a permanent thing.

They were a possibility but once Kes left the ship, the possibility of all future events she saw was erased.

 

[Lynx]

Ehhh ... I've always been relatively indifferent about Kathryn, but I wouldn't want to see Voyager captained by anyone else, not even Chakotay -- and he's like my favourite character on the show. Though, I must say, her death in "Before & After" really didn't have much of an impact.

It was just like, "Oh! The Captain's dead." Not like in "Coda" where her dying is given such gravitas. Milking it, for ALL it was worth, like with Harry's rambling on about eating berries with The Good Captain and getting berry stains all over his mouth, like a 4 year old ... ha! Doesn't that make you misty?

Despite Drew's unfortunate parentage and casting, frankly, I like "Before & After," once it starts, in earnest. Tom's story was moving, I must say, when he talked about how losing B'Elanna hurt him so bad ... and Kes' $aving him from all of that despair and hopelessness. And to see Kes warming up to him, in each "leap" was sweet, especially as she kept getting more attractive, with each successive jump ...

"Before And After" is an exciting episode and Lien's acting is excellent. But the episode is a little too weird for my taste. I prefer the more spooky scenario in episodes like "Cold Fire" and "Persistence Of Vision".

Janeway's death in both episodes didn't affect me that much because I realized that things would be OK before the end of he episode. But the scenario in "Coda" was more exciting because when I watched it the first time, I wasn't sure if it was reality, some dream or some alternate time event.

One episode which really made me wonder what was going on until the end was "Projections". When I watched it the first time, I didn't realize that The Doctor was back to normal until the end credits started to roll on the screen.

As for Janeway, I can't imagine anyone else as Captain, not even Chakotay. In fact, Kes, Chakotay and Janeway are my top 3 favorites.

 

[TigerCat]

"Before And After" is an exciting episode and Lien's acting is excellent. But the episode is a little too weird for my taste. I prefer the more spooky scenario in episodes like "Cold Fire" and "Persistence Of Vision".

Janeway's death in both episodes didn't affect me that much because I realized that things would be OK before the end of he episode. But the scenario in "Coda" was more exciting because when I watched it the first time, I wasn't sure if it was reality, some dream or some alternate time event.

One episode which really made me wonder what was going on until the end was "Projections". When I watched it the first time, I didn't realize that The Doctor was back to normal until the end credits started to roll on the screen.

As for Janeway, I can't imagine anyone else as Captain, not even Chakotay. In fact, Kes, Chakotay and Janeway are my top 3 favorites.

"Persistence of Vision" is one of my favorite episodes. It's spooky, it creates continuity (which is something I always love in shows) and has a very good blend of spookiness and sadness.

 

[Sophie74656]

They were a possibility but once Kes left the ship, the possibility of all future events she saw was erased.

she changed the timeline with every jump because she was talking about what was going on

 

[Sophie74656]

"Before And After" is an exciting episode and Lien's acting is excellent. But the episode is a little too weird for my taste. I prefer the more spooky scenario in episodes like "Cold Fire" and "Persistence Of Vision".

Janeway's death in both episodes didn't affect me that much because I realized that things would be OK before the end of he episode. But the scenario in "Coda" was more exciting because when I watched it the first time, I wasn't sure if it was reality, some dream or some alternate time event.

One episode which really made me wonder what was going on until the end was "Projections". When I watched it the first time, I didn't realize that The Doctor was back to normal until the end credits started to roll on the screen.

As for Janeway, I can't imagine anyone else as Captain, not even Chakotay. In fact, Kes, Chakotay and Janeway are my top 3 favorites.

The problem with most tv shows is that you know the main characters will not die. Or if they do it is temporary. When they are in danger you still know that at the end of the episode they will be fine.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Loving Kes is easy because she's beautiful. Am I right, Lynx? ... or am I right???

 

[TigerCat]

she changed the timeline with every jump because she was talking about what was going on

I meant after Kes chose to leave Voyager, it was a good indicator that B'Ellana and Janeway wouldn't die as well. The future we had seen had changed.

Same as "Charmed". They went into the future where one of the sisters owned the business where she worked. They come back to the present and that sister resigns her job (and later dies). That alone was a good indicator the future they had once been to no longer existed.

The problem with most tv shows is that you know the main characters will not die. Or if they do it is temporary. When they are in danger you still know that at the end of the episode they will be fine.

True but it depends on show as well as real world issues. For example Harry Kim was seriously ill in Scorpion (I think it was Scorpion) because it was planned that he'd die so that Seven would replace him. Real world issues gave the 'exit character' token to Kes instead but if things had progressed as planned, Harry's death would stick.

 

[Sophie74656]

I meant after Kes chose to leave Voyager, it was a good indicator that B'Ellana and Janeway wouldn't die as well. The future we had seen had changed.

Same as "Charmed". They went into the future where one of the sisters owned the business where she worked. They come back to the present and that sister resigns her job (and later dies). That alone was a good indicator the future they had once been to no longer existed.



True but it depends on show as well as real world issues. For example Harry Kim was seriously ill in Scorpion (I think it was Scorpion) because it was planned that he'd die so that Seven would replace him. Real world issues gave the 'exit character' token to Kes instead but if things had progressed as planned, Harry's death would stick.

Yes that's true. As in DS9 with the departure of Jadzia Dax, or in TNG with Tasha Yar. Both actresses had chosen to leave the show. But with both of those cases there was public knowledge that they were leaving. Or at least I remember that there were rumors that Terri Ferrel was leaving before the episode aired. So you had some preparation that the character was going away.

 

[TigerCat]

Exactly. I haven't watched DS9 but in TNG I believe Tasha Yar came back a couple of times, once as the same character and once as her look-a-like daughter.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Exactly. I haven't watched DS9 but in TNG I believe Tasha Yar came back a couple of times, once as the same character and once as her look-a-like daughter.

I think it was two times as the same character. Yesterday's Enterprise and the finale All Good Things... And it was more than once as the daughter. She was in Unification and in one before IIRC.

 

[TigerCat]

I think it was two times as the same character. Yesterday's Enterprise and the finale All Good Things... And it was more than once as the daughter. She was in Unification and in one before IIRC.

Yes! I remember the finale had a call to the first episode too. It involved Q I think (?). Thanks for the info

 

[Lynx]

Loving Kes is easy because she's beautiful. Am I right, Lynx? ... or am I right???

Oh yes you really are!

But it's not only her beauty. She's smart, curious, brave, strong-willed and determined. That, plus her abilities to solve problems by simply go around them and attacking them from another angle makes her an unique and very likeable character, one of Star Trek's best!

 

[TigerCat]

Oh yes you really are!

But it's not only her beauty. She's smart, curious, brave, strong-willed and determined. That, plus her abilities to solve problems by simply go around them and attacking them from another angle makes her an unique and very likeable character, one of Star Trek's best!

Here here

 

[Sophie74656]

Oh yes you really are!

But it's not only her beauty. She's smart, curious, brave, strong-willed and determined. That, plus her abilities to solve problems by simply go around them and attacking them from another angle makes her an unique and very likeable character, one of Star Trek's best!

That actually makes her exactly like many other characters