First and last names of minor characters
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
- Start date
No, because context matters. Fanfic is published too, but it's not from the authorized source, so it doesn't count. Stuff sold on eBay doesn't count either.
Also because a script is not a story -- it's just the blueprint for one. It's the set of instructions for creating a filmed story. If a script is published in a script book or making-of book, that's essentially a behind-the-scenes document.
That doesn't mean that people selling them on eBay are doing so legally. And it's so totally not the point. What ryan123450 is talking about is the difference between a name that "counts" because it's in the final, official version of a story and a name that doesn't count because it isn't from such a story. A script is not the final version of a story. It's not the version that counts, because it's just the first stage in creating the story.
I don't really see scripts as just the first stage in creating a story. Once a script has been released to the public, I see it as a story in its own right, like a novelization or a comic adaptation. Some scripts have never been developed, and in those cases, the script is the final version of the story.
Why would selling scripts on eBay be illegal? As long as people are not printing new copies, no one's copyright is being violated.
Why would selling scripts on eBay be illegal? As long as people are not printing new copies, no one's copyright is being violated.
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Because first sale doctrine only applies to something that was lawfully sold or transferred in the first place. It's a single exception to a copyright holder's otherwise-essentially-total right of distribution. If the copyright holder didn't approve the original transfer, then first sale doctrine never comes into play.
The copyright notice isn't even relevant, as all works created after January 1, 1978 in the United States are considered automatically under copyright anyway by the 1976 Copyright Act. All the notice is for is to make the paper trail to establish ownership more clear, it's no longer a required step of copyright.
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My understanding is that while Lincoln Enterprises was initially selling scripts illegally, in the 1970s they made a deal with the writers and with Paramount, so all script sales since that time were legal and all previous sales retroactively became legal.
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If you're talking about scripts sold by Lincoln Enterprises being resold on eBay, that's different; I'd thought you were talking about sales of random scripts on eBay obtained from who knows where. People that managed to grab a copy off set or something.
But all of that is a distraction from the real point, which is that the word "published story" in the context of this conversation is being used to mean something more specific than "any printed work ever sold anywhere." Ryan was using it in the sense of a licensed work of tie-in fiction, in this case the novelization of The Search.
But I don't think I'd count a novelization as an independent story in the sense ryan seemed to be suggesting. I see it as an adjunct to the primary version of the story, which is the episode itself. The script is also an adjunct, just in a different direction. Novelizations often preserve early ideas that were changed by the time the final episode or film came out. In this case, Eddington wasn't given the first name "Michael" until "The Search" was filmed, and he was actually named in honor of Kirk Douglas's character Paul Eddington in the film In Harm's Way. So maybe the draft of the "Search" script that was used by the novelizer had him listed as Paul, but it was changed to Michael by the time the episodes were filmed.
But I don't think I'd count a novelization as an independent story in the sense ryan seemed to be suggesting. I see it as an adjunct to the primary version of the story, which is the episode itself. The script is also an adjunct, just in a different direction. Novelizations often preserve early ideas that were changed by the time the final episode or film came out. In this case, Eddington wasn't given the first name "Michael" until "The Search" was filmed, and he was actually named in honor of Kirk Douglas's character Paul Eddington in the film In Harm's Way. So maybe the draft of the "Search" script that was used by the novelizer had him listed as Paul, but it was changed to Michael by the time the episodes were filmed.
@Extrocomp, do whatever you feel is best, it's your pet project, don't let others dictate to you what you should be doing.
Well, it's actually Laura's pet project, but I do seem to have taken it over.
Turns out I got this wrong. Timothy Fletcher only has DeSalle's lines, but Chakoteya's transcript misidentified DeSalle as Leslie.
I've also discovered that many of these alternate/rejected script names including Davis (Galloway), Dimont (Kelowitz), Li Chow (Lindstrom), Manning (Tamura), Robert Daiken (Kevin Riley) and Timothy Fletcher (DeSalle) are also present in the Blish novelizations.
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I've been thinking about Klingon names. Is the "son of ___" an actual part of a Klingon's name, similar to Icelandic names, or is it just something Klingons say to honor their own and each other's fathers?
It does seem to function as a formal patronymic of the type used in many Earth languages past and present, like Russian middle names or Scottish "Mc-" surnames. (I imagine that when Worf was adopted, his full name might have been formally listed as something like Worf Moghovich Rozhenko.) And it's helpful for distinguishing different Klingons with the same given name -- for instance, Kor, son of Rynar, who faced Kirk on Organia, has a novelverse grandfather named Kor, son of Kaltar.
After searching for the words "star trek" and "full name" on Google Books, I found the following sentence:
Peering at the display, Jurva saw that his full name was Targ, son of Targ.
I guess that settles it. Also, the fact that such names are often used in narration as well as dialogue.
Peering at the display, Jurva saw that his full name was Targ, son of Targ.
I guess that settles it. Also, the fact that such names are often used in narration as well as dialogue.
To me that should count as worthy of mention, just like the Eddington thing.
I personally would find it interesting to see the unused script names, even if they had to end up in their own section or something. Something along the lines of:
- Robert Daiken (TOS: Conscience of the King) -> Became Kevin Riley in finished episode
Is it ever said anywhere what the names of Norah Satie's brothers are?
Kenneth Dalby's murdered lover - Paola Calderon (Star Trek: Starship Creator)
Thanks. Do you have the Starship Creator game or did you find that on Memory Beta?
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