Agents of Shield - Season 4

[Christopher]

Off with the old and on with the new makes the participants appear shallow.

I don't understand what you mean by that. If you mean Coulson and May, they've been friends for longer than they've known anyone else on the team. What they share is hardly new. And it's hardly shallow. It's something that's grown very gradually out of all their shared experience and bonding. That seems pretty deep to me.

 

[DrCorby]

The way I see it is, who else would be a good match for Coulson or May, except the other? Who else does either of them know that they can confide in about their work, that they have as much history and understanding with, that they can be completely open and in sync with? Both of them have a lot of secrets, and May isn't someone who trusts or opens up easily. Coulson is just about the only person still alive that she could let her guard down with enough to have a romance with. So I don't see it as arbitrary shipping or obligatory pairing off. It makes sense to me.

I guess I see your points. It still just doesn't feel like a natural evolution to me. Yes, there have been little things said and done for the last 3 seasons, but this sudden outpouring of feeling didn't feel like the obvious outcome. To me. I just hope it's well done. I can swallow plotlines I don't like if the writing is good. Here's hoping for the best...

 

[Velocity]

I was agreeing with the previous posters about how both May and Coulson lost loved ones very recently. Most people don't move on that fast.

 

[Christopher]

I was agreeing with the previous posters about how both May and Coulson lost loved ones very recently. Most people don't move on that fast.

They aren't most people. They're soldiers used to the reality of death. All the more reason not to put off living.

 

[DrCorby]

I've thought of a couple of examples from other shows that illustrate more the direction I hope they'll go. In a later season of M*A*S*H, there was an episode where Hawkeye and Margaret were trapped in a farmhouse during intense shelling nearby. There was a real chance they might die, and they were terrified. In that instant, they turned to each other for comfort, including a passionate kiss. They were eventually rescued, never speaking about what had happened. They'd known and respected each other for years, despite some early hostility. There had been some sparks of interest, and they gave into those feelings briefly. But they knew a long-term romance was not in the cards for them, so they moved on but treasured that experience together.

In the ST:TNG episode I mentioned earlier ("Attached"), Picard & Crusher were connected mentally and shared some of each others' thoughts. They admitted there had been some attraction for the other (especially Picard for Crusher), and added to their shared experiences together, there was a romantic spark struck. But they eventually realized that the deep friendship they shared was more important to them than the possibility of a romantic relationship that could easily end and destroy their friendship. And so they continued, enriched by the experience, and still connected as friends. Heck, even in the possible future of "All Good Things...", they'd tried marriage and it had failed. And while it apparently didn't completely sour their friendship, there was more strain and distance.

THAT is what I'd prefer for Coulson and May. Acknowledge the attraction and spark between them, but realize that their friendship is more important. You don't need to be in a romantic relationship to confide in and support the other. In this age of cheap TV romance, that would be the harder choice for the writers.

 

[bbjeg]

The way I see it is, who else would be a good match for Coulson or May, except the other? Who else does either of them know that they can confide in about their work, that they have as much history and understanding with, that they can be completely open and in sync with? Both of them have a lot of secrets, and May isn't someone who trusts or opens up easily. Coulson is just about the only person still alive that she could let her guard down with enough to have a romance with. So I don't see it as arbitrary shipping or obligatory pairing off. It makes sense to me.

Coulson and Agent Weaver. May and Agent Shaw.

Or

Coulson and Maria Hill. May and Sam Wilson (off screen if need be).

 

[Turtletrekker]

Those are all a bit of a stretch.

 

[Christopher]

Coulson and Agent Weaver. May and Agent Shaw.

Now, that is just randomly pairing characters off by gender. Those are bit players I actually had to look up to remind myself who they were. That's what you're proposing as the alternative to a shallow and contrived pairing?

My whole point is that Coulson-May isn't contrived or arbitrary or based purely on pairing off by gender, because it's rooted in the close, long-lived relationship the two already have. And no, I'm not assuming it'd be a conventional TV romance -- that's why I think it's promising, because it would be an outgrowth of their deep friendship and so they'd probably be fairly laid-back and undramatic about it.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Keep in mind that May isn't pushing towards Coulson right now. She has feelings, of course, but she currently has her brain in a computer. May's LMD, on the other hand, is the one who was pushing her romantic feelings to the forefront. Now when they come back, Coulson is going to have that experience as well. But any question whether May is pushing too soon since Andrew is unfair since she's not doing anything.

 

[The Old Mixer]

However Coulson comes to feel about May, if/when the real May gets out of that VR, I suspect that she'll be more damaged goods than ever before, and possibly harboring some resentment toward Coulson for ripping her out of whatever dream world she's enjoying.

 

[bbjeg]

Now, that is just randomly pairing characters off by gender. Those are bit players I actually had to look up to remind myself who they were. That's what you're proposing as the alternative to a shallow and contrived pairing?

My whole point is that Coulson-May isn't contrived or arbitrary or based purely on pairing off by gender, because it's rooted in the close, long-lived relationship the two already have. And no, I'm not assuming it'd be a conventional TV romance -- that's why I think it's promising, because it would be an outgrowth of their deep friendship and so they'd probably be fairly laid-back and undramatic about it.

That wasn't a random pairing. Those characters have commonalities, and easily can be written back in as love interests, almost as easy as putting Coulson and May together in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

and possibly harboring some resentment toward Coulson for ripping her out of whatever dream world she's enjoying.

I think they've already established that May has no use for a virtual paradise. She knows she's trapped; the only thing that makes the Framework different from the previous simulation is that it models the entire world so there are no edges she can reach. And didn't the last episode end with a close-up on her face looking intense or agitated? She's still fighting.

That wasn't a random pairing. Those characters have commonalities, and easily can be written back in as love interests, almost as easy as putting Coulson and May together in the first place.

And that's a bad way to go about it. It's starting with the goal of matchmaking and forcing the characters to follow that path. I think that Coulson/May is arising organically out of who they are, their personalities and histories, so it isn't artificial or forced.

Besides, bringing back a guest character is not automatically as "easy" as making use of a series regular. It's contingent on the actor's availability. I mean, heck, why do you suppose they never brought back Coulson's old love Audrey? It's because Amy Acker got a regular gig on Person of Interest, and has been very much in demand ever since. Christine Adams is a pretty busy actress too, so there's no guarantee that a return by Agent Weaver would be feasible.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And didn't the last episode end with a close-up on her face looking intense or agitated? She's still fighting.

I was wondering how to factor that in. IIRC, though, the last we saw of her in-simulation, she was reliving her pivotal moment in Bahrain with a different outcome, so I was under the impression that they'd found something that works. The May who's lived a virtual alternate post-Bahrain life may not be the May we know.

 

[Christopher]

I was wondering how to factor that in. IIRC, though, the last we saw of her in-simulation, she was reliving her pivotal moment in Bahrain with a different outcome, so I was under the impression that they'd found something that works. The May who's lived a virtual alternate post-Bahrain life may not be the May we know.

Oh, yeah. There is that. Still, she was a top-notch agent even before Bahrain, which is why she was in Bahrain.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Not saying it will affect her skills per se, but it she could come out reconditioned so that her personality isn't what we're used to.

 

[Christopher]

Not saying it will affect her skills per se, but it she could come out reconditioned so that her personality isn't what we're used to.

What I meant was that, even without the Bahrain tragedy affecting her emotional state, she's still a very smart and canny agent and might still be able to see through the illusion and realize she needs to fight her way out. So more like Oliver Queen in "Invasion!" than Thea Queen in "Invasion!"

 

[Velocity]

The main reason to keep Coulson and May just comrades in arms is that once characters become a couple, Whedons often tend to kill one of the pair off or just destroy the relationship.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, that was quite the ending.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I have to admit, I was expecting someone to get switched out, and I was even formulating theories. I actually thought it would be Jemma. But all four?!? I did not see that coming.

I enjoyed the flashbacks with Coulson and May. We actually got a lot of interesting background and insight into their relationship in this episode. I loved the banter between them while on the job.

So, AIDA is the mastermind after all. Somehow, I'm not surprised. From the moment she read the Darkhold, there was no way this was going to end well.

 

[Christopher]

I was unclear on how the four were captured and switched out for LMDs. I guess what Jemma was saying was that she and Fitz were separated from the others for some time and that the other four's stories don't account for the full length of time they were away. I guess we'll find out how they were replaced in a flashback next week.

At first, I thought Jemma's musing about missing time was going to lead to the revelation that they were all in the Framework.

The flashbacks to early Coulson and May were cute, but I wish they'd had the budget to digitally de-age the actors as well as they did with Michael Douglas in Ant-Man.