Bashirs Massive Ethics Breach

[Jetboogieman]

I recently watched Chrysalis and I have to say, if you look at Bashirs actions throughout the episode, his actions towards Sarina were pretty inappropriate in the context of any doctor/patient scenario no matter the century.

She had been socially isolated for decades and without any hesitation he tries to initiate a sexual relationship with her, now it doesn't really matter what premeditated his actions, how she broke into his quarters beforehand or fell asleep on him, whatever, if you think about it he really should have known better.

What's your take on this?

 

[Voth commando1]

I recently watched Chrysalis and I have to say, if you look at Bashirs actions throughout the episode, his actions towards Sarina were pretty inappropriate in the context of any doctor/patient scenario no matter the century.

She had been socially isolated for decades and without any hesitation he tries to initiate a sexual relationship with her, now it doesn't really matter what premeditated his actions, how she broke into his quarters beforehand or fell asleep on him, whatever, if you think about it he really should have known better.

What's your take on this?

I don't seem to recall him inititating this. At the end she betrays Jack Pack's traitorous/slash "swallow your pride and be logical" negotiation attempt with Weypun and Damar.

I seem to recall he was interested in her romantically and sexually Bashir seems to be a skirt chaser de jure.

The EMH in Voyager I think has similar tendencies and McCoy was a stickler for women as well.

Perhaps ethics and the expectations of professional behavior have shifted somewhat.

 

[kkt]

Breaking into his quarters doesn't mean she's necessarily interested in a romantic or sexual relationship. She was an emotional child and not ready for a relationship with anyone, and Bashir knew that. And it doesn't even matter if she was ready. She was his patient. As a doctor, it is part of his job to graciously turn down inappropriate advances and put any feelings he may have on ice.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I recently watched Chrysalis and I have to say, if you look at Bashirs actions throughout the episode, his actions towards Sarina were pretty inappropriate in the context of any doctor/patient scenario no matter the century.

Without a doubt.

What's your take on this?

Paragons of virtue are less meaningful than explorations of ethics and absences thereof. The fact that Bashir's relationship was inappropriate ultimately demonstrated and the judgement against such relationships was affirmed. That's good enough for me.

 

[Papermoon]

I think Bashir is a creep. It's not the first time he's crosses the line with women.

 

[Voth commando1]

I think Bashir is a creep. It's not the first time he's crosses the line with women.

Isn't that a little Creepaphobic?

 

[Kor]

In the 24th century, mankind will have evolved beyond our primitive hang-ups about mixing personal and professional interests. As the advanced Gary Mitchell said, "morals are for men, not gods."

Seriously, though, the field of ethics is adaptive, and not just about hard-and-fast rules. Here's some fairly recent medical thinking on this particular topic: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840818

"While I believe a doctor must not have a relationship with a current patient, it is also true that the traditional doctor/patient relationship does not exist as before," commented a family physician. "We have become 'healthcare providers'—service providers not much different from plumbers, hairdressers, and auto mechanics. Whose fault is this? I don't know. Maybe plumbers should also be prohibited from having relationships with their clients, or maybe, in the modern world, doctors should be allowed to have relationships with their 'clients.'"

Kor

 

[Triskelion]

The problem is that some professions engender authority over clients and patients. Plumbers are not treated as esoteric priests of life and death - but it is commonly known in the medical profession, and allied health professions, that these roles do come with an aura of authority. As do teachers (even of students of consenting age), police, and - this is one that TV always gets wrong - psychotherapists. The authority relationship is particularly at risk of abuses and requires more stringent ethical differentiation than common roles like shopkeeper or taxi driver. Especially when high-priced payment models are based on insurance and prone to very costly abuses. Or when you have, say, police or military officers seeking romantic relationships with people who could feel coerced or threatened if they don't cooperate.

In regulated, licensed professions it becomes a vital ethical safeguard to disallow any and all personal relations outside the professional interaction. When I mentioned psychotherapy on TV - they are always counseling people they interact with in other social settings; in the actual profession you could lose your license for not referring such a case - and only taking clients with whom you have had no previous acquaintence, nor any relations afterward. On TV, they date patients, they go to parties with them, they live on the same street, and fall into bed on a regular basis. TV is not real.

Ethics aren't just a good idea - they are protection against millions of dollars of legal liability. Let alone doing unspecified mental and even physical harm to people in vulnerable situations. Sometimes - the role is more than the individual holding the seat.

 

[DonIago]

I really don't think any doctor should get involved with anyone under or just released from their care, much as I think anyone who's recently become single should probably spend some time rediscovering themselves before moving onto a new partner. People are complicated, and even if they operate with the best of intentions there may be variables in play that they're not even aware of.

 

[Voth commando1]

When it comes to teachers my thing is that as long as the student is of consenting age, then a relationship shouldn't result in any legal consequence. For example if an 18 year old guy sleeps with a 24 year old teacher then being of legal age and adults there shouldn't be any consequences. Same thing with male teacherss(gasp I'm not one of those neo-Victorians).

Now if a lucky 14 year old gets to have it on with his middle school teacher than as long as rape doesn't happen and its discrete why ruin a teacher's life?

 

[kkt]

Um. This is a trick question, right? Because the power the teacher has over the student's grade makes the relationship inherently unequal. Even if the student gets into the relationship willingly, the teacher's power may prevent the student from ending it if they feel like it. It's also hard to convince others that no favoritism was involved over grades, letters of recommendation, choice of assignments, etc.. Same reasons having sex with the boss is unethical. As the teacher is the grownup in the room, the teacher has a stronger responsibility than the student does to keep a compromising situation from developing.

 

[Voth commando1]

Um. This is a trick question, right? Because the power the teacher has over the student's grade makes the relationship inherently unequal. Even if the student gets into the relationship willingly, the teacher's power may prevent the student from ending it if they feel like it. It's also hard to convince others that no favoritism was involved over grades, letters of recommendation, choice of assignments, etc.. Same reasons having sex with the boss is unethical. As the teacher is the grownup in the room, the teacher has a stronger responsibility than the student does to keep a compromising situation from developing.

That's when you have to expect more of people then it's possible to for them to give. The teacher ought to be expected to treat the student fairly regardless of his/her personal feelings or just that they have really good sex. The student ought to understand that the relationship does not mean they get an easy A, or they get out of trouble.

Is that a standard to high? Yes probably it is. But still I'm not one for ruining people's lives over this sort of thing.

Basically people should compartmentalize the personal and professional. Not just in going through the motions sort of way but in their minds as well.

 

[DonIago]

I might look at it more as protecting people from their own worst impulses and from people who might seek to take advantage of said impulses.

 

[Voth commando1]

I might look at it more as protecting people from their own worst impulses and from people who might seek to take advantage of said impulses.

Isn't that patronizing and dare I say it puritanical? Shouldn't people be allowed to do as they please with the confines of legality and morality?

 

[DonIago]

Uh...isn't legality and morality exactly what we're discussing?

 

[Kor]

How compartmentalized should the personal and professional be? Was it wrong for Drs. Boyce and McCoy to be drinking buddies with their captains? ("Jim, I'm your doctor and I'm your friend") And is it wrong for a captain to be romantically involved with someone under her/his command when it's a five-year deep space mission and they're not likely to have long-term contact with anybody else? Troi was the (only) ship's counselor on the Ent-D. Was she not supposed to be friends or romantically involved with any of the crew?

... Especially when high-priced payment models are based on insurance and prone to very costly abuses. ...

Well... depending on whether you believe money exists in the Trek universe or not, this aspect of medicine may be completely out of the equation.

The medical field changes a lot over time. Even the original Hippocratic Oath has plenty of stuff that's completely irrelevant and disregarded today: swearing before gods that nobody believes in anymore, taking care of your medical teacher's needs (that's one teacher, not a whole medical school faculty) and teaching that teacher's kids the art of medicine for free, not performing surgery on people (because at the time only barbers were "trained in this craft" and not doctors), etc. Who knows how it will be hundreds of years from now?

I consider my doctor to basically be somebody who performs a service for me for a fee, not somebody who has any kind of "authority" over me, especially in this day and age of patient empowerment, advance directives and powers of attorney that doctors must be subordinate to when they administer treatment. As far as romance with a doctor goes, I personally don't like to be with somebody who's more educated than me, but some people are just fine with that.

Kor