Memory Omega - New Trek Prose and Comics Wiki

[Desert Kris]

How can you skip TPM? It's the best prequel!

There's a variant of Machete order that argues that you can skip The Phantom Menace when "flashing back" to the prequels from the sequels, maybe Christopher was watch in that order...

Edited to add: Sorry, my mistake, machete order is the "flashback variant that removes TPM.

 

[Jinn]

When I was younger [insert flashback] TPM was my favorite SW movie...

I sincerly apologize for my misguided.... views.

I stuck with the name "Jinn" though.

 

[Desert Kris]

When I was younger [insert flashback] TPM was my favorite SW movie...

I sincerly apologize for my misguided.... views.

I stuck with the name "Jinn" though.

Qui-Gon is a wonderful character. And TPM takes chances with going unexpected directions story-wise, and expands the production design aesthetic possiblities of SW movies. The devil is in other details.

 

[Skywalker]

There's a variant of Machete order that argues that you can skip The Phantom Menace when "flashing back" to the prequels from the sequels, maybe Christopher was watch in that order...

Edited to add: Sorry, my mistake, machete order is the "flashback variant that removes TPM.

I just want to point out that the person behind the Machete Order said that it doesn't skip TPM because it's bad (AOTC is arguably worse, but it's still included), just that the whole point of the Machete Order is to keep the story focused on Luke, the actual hero, instead of on Anakin, whom George Lucas retroactively tried to make the hero as a marketing gimmick for the prequels. TPM is largely irrelevant to Luke's story, with AOTC and ROTS featuring more relevant parallels, and AOTC catches you up on the few things from TPM you need to know (i.e. Anakin and Padmé met when he was a boy, they haven't seen each other in ten years).

 

[Christopher]

There's a variant of Machete order that argues that you can skip The Phantom Menace when "flashing back" to the prequels from the sequels, maybe Christopher was watch in that order...

Yes, exactly. Having seen Rogue One, I went on to Eps. IV-V, then flashed back to II-III, then resumed with VI, then decided to go ahead and rewatch VII. And I found that the premise of Machete Order was exactly right -- it worked perfectly fine as a cohesive narrative without TPM. There was nothing that AOTC and ROTS didn't adequately set up or explain. The only exception was that if you'd never seen TPM, you wouldn't understand the reference to midi-chlorians in ROTS -- but that's okay, because the original films gave us a ton of terms that weren't defined, like the Kessel Run and gundarks and Ord Mantell and nerf-herders.

In fact, that's one thing I think was lost in the prequels. The originals did a great job creating a feel of a larger world beyond what we saw through all these throwaway references. They created their world as much through dialogue as through visuals. But in the prequels, Lucas had the technology to put every idea he had on camera, so everything was shown rather than talked about, and so we got a hugely cluttered world that somehow had less texture because it wasn't filtered through the characters.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Machete order

Machete Order

Machete Order

OK... I gotta ask... why do you call it that? Is it just because you have to figuratively "chop up" the films to view them in whatever order this entails?

I stuck with the name "Jinn" though.

I... umm... never made that connection. I honestly just figured your handle was from this.

Totally unrelated, but... I didn't originally realize that your av was based on something that actually exists (well, in a fictional sense, but you know what I mean). But one day I was browsing stuff online and I stumbled across an image of some character I'd never heard of before, and it was like "oh, wow, that's the helmet thing from Jinn's avatar!" I have since totally forgotten who the character was again, but it was quite the exciting discovery at the time!

 

[Skywalker]

OK... I gotta ask... why do you call it that? Is it just because you have to figuratively "chop up" the films to view them in whatever order this entails?

It's called the Machete Order because of the blog from which it became popularized. Check out this post there from 2015, which also links to the original post from 2011.

 

[Avro Arrow]

It's called the Machete Order because of the blog from which it became popularized. Check out this post there from 2015, which also links to the original post from 2011.

Interesting read, thanks!

 

[Desert Kris]

Yes, exactly. Having seen Rogue One, I went on to Eps. IV-V, then flashed back to II-III, then resumed with VI, then decided to go ahead and rewatch VII. And I found that the premise of Machete Order was exactly right -- it worked perfectly fine as a cohesive narrative without TPM. There was nothing that AOTC and ROTS didn't adequately set up or explain. The only exception was that if you'd never seen TPM, you wouldn't understand the reference to midi-chlorians in ROTS -- but that's okay, because the original films gave us a ton of terms that weren't defined, like the Kessel Run and gundarks and Ord Mantell and nerf-herders.

I tried the machete order, but I had forgotten the aspect of it contributing to advancing Anakin's significance over Luke's. I did kind of feel like something was missing, without TPM (that's just me, though). I haven't actually tried the flashback order, but I think I will put TPM back in next time I watch through the movies.

In fact, that's one thing I think was lost in the prequels. The originals did a great job creating a feel of a larger world beyond what we saw through all these throwaway references. They created their world as much through dialogue as through visuals. But in the prequels, Lucas had the technology to put every idea he had on camera, so everything was shown rather than talked about, and so we got a hugely cluttered world that somehow had less texture because it wasn't filtered through the characters.

A few simple lines of dialogue about legendary clone wars created impressions and images in my head that formed very naturally. Years later, even after Prequels established a more "definite" story, I able to recall those older impressions and write them out, and I had a very different expanded narrative-alternative to the prequels...not better, but very different. I like being able to take those minimal scraps of backstory information, and letting my mind fill in the blanks.

 

[Jinn]

I... umm... never made that connection. I honestly just figured your handle was from this.

Well, technically Qui-Gon's name was derived from the Arabic word for genie, so in a sense you were right.

Totally unrelated, but... I didn't originally realize that your av was based on something that actually exists (well, in a fictional sense, but you know what I mean). But one day I was browsing stuff online and I stumbled across an image of some character I'd never heard of before, and it was like "oh, wow, that's the helmet thing from Jinn's avatar!" I have since totally forgotten who the character was again, but it was quite the exciting discovery at the time!

His name is Richard Rider. If you tend to forget it, remember a shortened form of Richard is Dick. 70s' Marvel must have been in severe need of penis jokes...

 

[Christopher]

A few simple lines of dialogue about legendary clone wars created impressions and images in my head that formed very naturally. Years later, even after Prequels established a more "definite" story, I able to recall those older impressions and write them out, and I had a very different expanded narrative-alternative to the prequels...not better, but very different. I like being able to take those minimal scraps of backstory information, and letting my mind fill in the blanks.

Oh, that must be it. The stuff that just gets mentioned in passing feels more evocative because it's a cue to our imaginations and we can flesh it out for ourselves, so it's more engaging than if it's just shown to us outright. It's like Hitchcock's view that the bad things you don't see are scarier than the things you do.

One drawback to putting the prequels between Empire and Jedi is that they're startlingly different in tone. The main characters in the original SW movies and TFA (and I guess Rogue One) feel like ordinary people speaking everyday, vernacular dialogue, giving the movies a grounded, accessible feel that I suppose is a major part of their appeal. But everyone in AOTC and ROTS talks in this stilted, formal way, almost like characters from an Elizabethan costume drama. Maybe that was the intent, to give it more of a "historical" feel, but it makes the characters less accessible.

 

[Stevil2001]

Yes, exactly. Having seen Rogue One, I went on to Eps. IV-V, then flashed back to II-III, then resumed with VI, then decided to go ahead and rewatch VII. And I found that the premise of Machete Order was exactly right -- it worked perfectly fine as a cohesive narrative without TPM. There was nothing that AOTC and ROTS didn't adequately set up or explain. The only exception was that if you'd never seen TPM, you wouldn't understand the reference to midi-chlorians in ROTS -- but that's okay, because the original films gave us a ton of terms that weren't defined, like the Kessel Run and gundarks and Ord Mantell and nerf-herders.

In fact, that's one thing I think was lost in the prequels. The originals did a great job creating a feel of a larger world beyond what we saw through all these throwaway references. They created their world as much through dialogue as through visuals. But in the prequels, Lucas had the technology to put every idea he had on camera, so everything was shown rather than talked about, and so we got a hugely cluttered world that somehow had less texture because it wasn't filtered through the characters.

Ah, that makes sense. I think before Episode VIII comes out I want to rewatch the saga, but I haven't decided what order to do it in: Chronological, Production, or Machete. (Though I'd do the expanded Machete that includes TPM, and I'd include Rogue One in whatever order I picked.)

 

[Christopher]

At some point, when I can spare the time, I should rewatch The Clone Wars, which is in my Netflix queue. I want to watch it in chronological order -- and soon enough after my movie rewatch that I recognize the references.


Umm... So anyway, how's that new Star Trek wiki coming? I imagine it'd take a while to add enough articles for it to be really useful. It seems like quite a monumental undertaking.

 

[Jinn]

At some point, when I can spare the time, I should rewatch The Clone Wars, which is in my Netflix queue. I want to watch it in chronological order -- and soon enough after my movie rewatch that I recognize the references.

I recently did that as part of my new canon rewatch/reread (thanks to Marvel Unlimited) and liked it a lot than when it originaly aired.

Umm... So anyway, how's that new Star Trek wiki coming? I imagine it'd take a while to add enough articles for it to be really useful. It seems like quite a monumental undertaking.

Currently the DS9 relaunch novel articles are being added as well as some first templates.

 

[ryan123450]

I'm wondering why everytime I go to Memory Omega it says the latest activity was The Unreal McCoy 19 hours ago.

 

[JD]

I recently did that as part of my new canon rewatch/reread (thanks to Marvel Unlimited) and liked it a lot than when it originaly aired.


Currently the DS9 relaunch novel articles are being added as well as some first templates.

I'm working on that actually, I've added pages for Avatar Bk1&2 - Horn and Ivory, and a series page. I know my writing isn't always the greatest, so if anyone wants to look through and clean them up or add new info feel free.

 

[bok2384]

My thanks goes out to all of you that have contributed so far. It pleases me to see that we're starting to build up our base slowly. I can't wait to see where we all take the wiki in the future.

I was wondering if I could get the TrekBBS's help on an article I'm putting together. I'm currently writing an extensive article on Scotty (see here) and I'd like to ask if anyone knows of any Scotty-centric novels or novels that feature Scott in an extensive capacity. All I've come up with so far is the excellent The Future Begins, which examines Scotty in the 24th century, and Foundations which looks at Scotty during the 2260s and 2270s and his encounters with the SCE.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

I can't think of anything terribly recent that features Scotty. In 24th century novels, I believe he played a significant part in Indistinguishable from Magic by David McIntee from a few years ago. In older 24th century novels he has a big part in both Crossover by Michael Jan Friedman and Engines of Destiny by Gene DeWeese. A couple older 23rd century novels that feature him in a big role are Home is the Hunter and Memory Prime, the Reeves-Stevens' first Trek novel.

 

[ryan123450]

His shot at the Kobayashi Maru was in Kobayashi Maru.

 

[Defcon]

If I remember correctly he plays a significant role in TOS: Home is the Hunter, where he is displaced into 18th century Scotland.