• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Capaldi Leaving Doctor Who

I've seen that Capaldi hasn't gotten the same kind of merchandising support as Tennant & Smith did. :(

Yes, the London Toy Fair was the other week and there was far more non-Capaldi stuff than 12th Doctor stuff. But that's an Effect not a Cause.

At the end of the day Moffat and Capaldi both thought it was a great idea to make the Doctor an unlikable jerk in his first Series and then had to radically tone it done in his second. But by that point a sizable chunk of the audience had already decided not to return.
 
I'm not a mental health person obviously, but I think that would be a sociopath. There are a bunch of crazy people with powerful emotions. Turning homicidal because of an accidental death of a loved one makes a person officially crazy in my book.

I'd suggest looking into it. There's little that would mark Clara out as a psychopath. Setting aside any other marker she feels empathy for other people.

Clearly she isn't thinking straight but pain and loss does funny things to people. She's dealing with the sudden death of someone she loved well before his time, and into the bargain she was on the phone to him at the moment he died. Lord knows what that does to a person but I sincerely hope none of us find out first hand. And then, let us not forget, adding to this emotional turmoil is the knowledge that she's best friends with a man who owns a time machine.

I'm not defending what the character did, and lets not lose sight of the fact that she's a fictional construct, but it was understandable. Probably as understandable as Rose manipulating the man with a time machine to save her dad (and almost destroying all of time and space in the process).

That's largely because of the fabled "Troughton Rule." Basically Troughton told Peter Davison to leave after his contract expired, which just so happened to be after his third year, and since it's been considered a tradition. In fact a twisted interpretation of it was used by the BBC as grounds to fire Colin Baker. These days, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi all had three year contracts which none have chosen to renew, though Tennant did take a brief extension for the 2009 specials.

I'll be honest, I think another Tom would be unwelcome. I think the show needs a more regular infusion of a new Doctor more often than every 7 years. That said It'd be nice if someone emulated Pertwee and did 5 years. The 3 year cycle is becoming quite predictable.
 
Agreed. As Whovians, we haven't had such a bad time since 2012 when Caroline John & Mary Tamm both died in quick succession.
Who else died recently? The last one i remember is Sladen, but that was back in 2011.
I can't believe Smith was only 3 series, it seemed longer. His first two series were fantastic, but it started to get bogged down.
 
As far as Clara's actions in "Dark Water," I'll agree that's not her finest hour. But her actions were understandable given the circumstances. Plus, I love how badass Capaldi is in that scene! "Throw the key or stop threatening me! There really isn't a 3rd option here!" I'm willing to forgive a lot if you do something that gives Capaldi an awesome moment! :cool:

Yes, the London Toy Fair was the other week and there was far more non-Capaldi stuff than 12th Doctor stuff. But that's an Effect not a Cause.

I dunno. I think some of it comes down to brand management. Right from the get-go, Capaldi's ongoing comic series had to compete with ongoing comic series for Tennant & Smith. You didn't see this before. During the Smith years, they took great care to limit the Tennant merchandise that came out. Similarly, Tennant didn't have to deal with a lot of Eccleston merchandise during his tenure.

I wonder how much of this had to do with Capaldi taking over right after the big 50th anniversary multi-Doctor crossover? I suspect that played a large part in generating greater interest in past Doctors. Plus, since there was such a long gap between Smith's finale in "The Time of the Doctor" and Capaldi's debut in "Deep Breath," it meant there was a longer than usual time when we didn't really know anything about the "current" Doctor.

At the end of the day Moffat and Capaldi both thought it was a great idea to make the Doctor an unlikable jerk in his first Series and then had to radically tone it done in his second. But by that point a sizable chunk of the audience had already decided not to return.

I'm not sure how on-board Capaldi was with that idea to start with. It seems more like that's something that Moffat had somehow gotten into his head was a good idea, god knows why, and it took him a while to shake it. Capaldi's performance often seems to be resisting it when he can. The worst part of that was that it smacked of trying too hard. Capaldi, by his very nature, is a more severe and less reassuring presence than Tennant or Smith. They should have just let that naturally come out in his performance rather than emphasizing it so much in the writing.

Who else died recently? The last one i remember is Sladen, but that was back in 2011.

2011 & 2012 were both bad years. In 2011 we lost Elisabeth Sladen (Sarah Jane Smith) & Nicholas Courtney (Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart). In 2012, we lost Caroline John (Dr. Liz Shaw) & Mary Tamm (Romana I).

This year, we've thankfully only had one death-- John Hurt (the War Doctor). But Peter Capaldi's announced departure from the series has sucker punched me just as badly.

Your mileage may vary, depending upon how attached you were to Capaldi's Doctor. But, for me, I was quite attached. But maybe Season 10 will do a good job of weaning me off of him anyway. In the cases of both Tennant & Smith, I was ready to see them go by the end of their respective 3rd seasons. Smith seemed kinda bored in Season 7, as if he'd already explored everything that he wanted to do with the character and no longer had the excitement of finding anything new. He elevated his game somewhat when teamed up with Tennant & Hurt for the 50th anniversary special but otherwise seemed not as fully engaged. Tennant I was ready to see leave when he did, although, in hindsight, I think it was more that I was sick of RTD's writing. I suspect that, had Tennant stuck around for Moffat's first season, I would have come away with a much more positive impression of Tennant's Doctor than I ultimately did.
 
The BBC ruined any momentum for Capaldi by taking the year off.

Capaldi should have 4 seasons under his belt. It feels like we just met him-

That speaks to his wasted potential.

Having said that- the show needs a Jumpstart. I don't think they could achieve its with the current regime.
 
I still feel that another problem on the marketing front is that 12 never had a definitive look. I'm not saying I want him to have a uniform, but with 9,10, and 11 you could boil their image down to something simple and memorable, even when they varied it. 12's look's just been all over the place. One minute he's a debonair stage magician, the next he's a scruffy street magician (which for the record I think suits him best because he doesn't look like a knock off Pertwee then).
 
I think Capaldi's early look was a little too polished to fit his Doctor. I like when he does scruffy, although there were a few times when they took it a little too far. As for "knock-off-Pertwee," nothing in the world wrong with that, IMO! :D

Mostly, anything dark that emphasizes his skinniness works for me.

But I suppose you have a point that his lack of a specific visual signature was probably a handicap on the merchandising level.
 
I think Capaldi's early look was a little too polished to fit his Doctor. I like when he does scruffy, although there were a few times when they took it a little too far. As for "knock-off-Pertwee," nothing in the world wrong with that, IMO! :D

Mostly, anything dark that emphasizes his skinniness works for me.

But I suppose you have a point that his lack of a specific visual signature was probably a handicap on the merchandising level.
Thank you for putting it better than I did,!
 
That's largely because of the fabled "Troughton Rule." Basically Troughton told Peter Davison to leave after his contract expired, which just so happened to be after his third year, and since it's been considered a tradition. In fact a twisted interpretation of it was used by the BBC as grounds to fire Colin Baker. These days, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi all had three year contracts which none have chosen to renew, though Tennant did take a brief extension for the 2009 specials.
Interestingly, Davison had changed his mind late in the game and had hoped to stay for a 4th season, but JNT was already fixated on Colin Baker.

Mr Awe
 
I dunno. I think some of it comes down to brand management. Right from the get-go, Capaldi's ongoing comic series had to compete with ongoing comic series for Tennant & Smith. You didn't see this before. During the Smith years, they took great care to limit the Tennant merchandise that came out. Similarly, Tennant didn't have to deal with a lot of Eccleston merchandise during his tenure.
During the RTD era there actually was an embargo on merchandising prior Doctors. Indeed, aside from the DVDs and audio dramas, nothing with any of the classic era Doctors was done in those days. Since Moffat took over, that embargo has been lifted, though some have suggested that's because Moffat finds coordinating the merchandise an unnecessary hassle so he's allowed opened the previous Doctor to merchandising just so there can be Doctor Who product out there without anyone bothering him.
 
Yes, the London Toy Fair was the other week and there was far more non-Capaldi stuff than 12th Doctor stuff. But that's an Effect not a Cause.

It's more than just toys. Titan's twelfth Doctor comic books sell fewer copies than the tenth and eleventh Doctor comics.
 
Didn't a novel or an audio retcon Adric's death by having the Master pluck him off the ship before it crashed?

I know, "not canon".

Yep, not canon. I don't own any of the audio adventures, and most of the novels I own are adaptations of the Classic episodes.

May I suggest reading this? http://www.paulcornell.com/2007/02/canonicity-in-doctor-who/ A few years old but yet to be contradicted. Here's the main point to keep in mind:

Because when you say ‘the books just aren’t “canon!”’ or ‘the books “happened” and the TV show can’t ignore them!’ you’re not saying something like ‘for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction’, you’re saying something like ‘the South will never surrender’. You’re yelling a battle cry, not stating the truth. Because there is no truth here to find. There was never and now cannot be any authority to rule on matters of canonicity in a tale that has allowed, or at the very least accepted, the rewriting of its own continuity. And you’re using the fact that discussions of canonicity are all about authority to try to assume an authority that you do not have.

In the end, you’re just bullying people.

Because in Doctor Who there is no such thing as ‘canon’.
 
May I suggest reading this? http://www.paulcornell.com/2007/02/canonicity-in-doctor-who/ A few years old but yet to be contradicted. Here's the main point to keep in mind:
As far as I'm concerned, canon consists of what's been on TV, or referenced on TV. A special case could be made for "Night of the Doctor" since that wasn't on TV, but it was clearly intended as a prequel to the 50th anniversary story.

So no, I don't consider the audio adventures or non-episode novels (with the exception of those referenced in "Night of the Doctor") to be canon. My Romana II is still stuck in E-Space, not regenerated or president of Gallifrey or the myriad other things she's supposedly done. My Adric is dead.

Of course, fanfiction can undo all that, but fanfiction isn't canon, either. Otherwise, the series referenced in my sig would have made a hell of a modern kind of Star Trek as regards LGBT crew. Valjiir-Sulu is bisexual, married to an alien woman who was once married to a Vulcan. Spock's wife is half Antari, half-human, and her human religion is Jewish.

So while I'm okay with multiple perspectives on the TV shows I like, not all of them can be official, or even make any sense all taken together. It really doesn't seem fair to say "such-and-such non-episode adaptation or audio adventure is canon" if a significant number of fans never even knew it existed.
 
As far as I'm concerned, canon consists of

"As far as I'm concerned" and "canon consists of" don't fit comfortably in the same sentence. If there's a canon, it's widely agreed on, or it's not canon. There's a big difference between "I don't think this counts because I don't care about the books and audios" and "it's not canon." In Doctor Who, you can say the first, and someone else can say, "Well, I think it does count." You can't win an argument in Doctor Who by appealing to canon authority because there is none.
 
"As far as I'm concerned" and "canon consists of" don't fit comfortably in the same sentence. If there's a canon, it's widely agreed on, or it's not canon. There's a big difference between "I don't think this counts because I don't care about the books and audios" and "it's not canon." In Doctor Who, you can say the first, and someone else can say, "Well, I think it does count." You can't win an argument in Doctor Who by appealing to canon authority because there is none.
Way to miss my point. I'm not "appealing" to canon authority. I'm saying what I would consider "canon authority" to be. That would be anything that's been on TV or referenced by what's been on TV (and preferably available to North American audiences as well as UK audiences).
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top