Its just one theory. He may want to know more of what makes the dark side tick.
Star Wars Episode VIII Title reveal
- Thread starter Romulan_spy
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Its just one theory. He may want to know more of what makes the dark side tick.
That trick never works.
Given that your example there comes from someone who was completely unable to follow the Jedi code where emotions are concerned, I'm not sure how telling that is for Jedi philosophy as a whole. Anakin may very well be looking merely to justify the forbidden feelings that he already has for Padme. It's not a Jedi tenet, it's a teenage excuse. Anakin is almost always about having his own way, and he's obviously not above abandoning the Jedi way when it serves his wants.
And while I agree that the more seasoned Jedi we see only preach against fear, anger, hate, and such, they do so without context. We know the Jedi preach a position of selfless unattachment, of leaving behind specific connections to specific individuals. We see with Anakin why this is so, and it makes a lot of sense. Attachment can lead to selfishness. But we also see the Jedi order engage in an ill fated distancing from the Republic at large. I'm not talking about the institutions or the politics, I'm talking about the people. Most people have never seen a Jedi, even during the late days of the Republic, many are wary of them and some with good reason. I'm reminded of the Lost Missions Clone Wars episode with the planet that views the Jedi as kidnappers because they made off with children at will, seemingly without consent.
The Jedi have become emotionally distant to the very people they are meant to serve. They have, in a sense, abandoned their service in favor of cloistered, hermetic existence. Is that a form of selfishness? I leave judgements to others more qualified than I. But I feel like presenting Qui-Gon Jinn as he did may have been unintentionally one of the most interesting things Lucas ever did. Qui-gon represents a much more street level kind of Jedi. Hands in the sand, shoulder to shoulder with the riff raff. It's hard to get a sense of just how strange he must be among the Jedi, because Obi-Wan and to a lesser extant Anakin take after him. But remember that Qui-Gon is viewed as being eccentric, if we're charitable, by the Jedi Council. He wasn't orthodox, and it left him somewhat out of the loops.
I'll give you the fallacy point, though I was largely viewing the argument from Luke's eyes, who would be as aware of the outcome as we are. But the Jedi don't have to be wrong about everything, or even about the Force necessarily for the "orthodox" Jedi path to be incorrect. I feel like Luke's journey in search of the Jedi's ancient past could be a search for what the Jedi were like before orthodoxy and institutional thinking set in. A way to see if the order may have made a misstep in some way that could be corrected. Think of it less as replacing the Jedi way, or even a refinement of it, than as a reclaiming a lost heritage. The return of Classic Coke after New Coke wasn't such a hit, if you'll pardon the awful metaphor.
Using Anakin as an indictment of the Jedi as a whole seems misguided. It is a Jedi tenet, regardless of its messenger. You seem to assume it's being used as an excuse but I don't think that really fits the context. Regardless, we are presumably meant to believe that this is something he has been taught as opposed to something he has invented. The point is that "no emotion" is largely a creation of the internet.
We don't see any Jedi, seasoned or not, preach against positive emotions.
They fight a war to preserve the Republic, Abraham Lincoln style. That's hardly abandoning their service or distancing themselves from the Republic.
That's a numbers issue. You have nine or ten thousand Jedi, and then you have a whole galaxy. I don't even want to think about how many sapients there are in the Republic.
It is noteworthy that the only time we see a child inducted into the order in the films, the parent gives consent. There is no "baby-snatching", which is essentially the GFFA equivalent of Fake News.
Xerxes82 said:
Such as allowing themselves to become joined at the hip to the Republic government?
Which they did by ravaging countless worlds, likely killing plenty of living soldiers and civilians along with battle droids. You're arguing an institutional war, and the audience is told the cause appears just. But I'm arguing the Jedi aren't meant to serve the Republic as an institution as much as a people or a society. Their responsibility shouldn't have been fighting the war, it should have been keeping it out of civilian areas and focusing on brokering a peace. And yes, Palpatine explicitly uses the Jedi as generals to turn public sentiment against the Jedi, letting them be seen as militaristic and combat happy in preparation for revealing them as traitors to the Republic. (This is among other things, like whittling down numbers and causing chaos, dissension and Dark Side fever amongst the ranks).
Mother Theresa was one woman on a planet of 7 billion. Whatever your position on the woman and her life, it's hard to argue that getting involved at the ground level made the word spread. How many people, especially in the Western world with access to media, knew about her and her works? It doesn't take an army. It takes dedicated individuals doing good deeds. Less big "H" galaxy spanning heroism than little "h" day to hay good samaritan deeds. Maybe the Jedi just have really terrible PR, but considering it's explicitly called out how poorly they are known (and the fact that just 20 years into the empire people can, with a straight face, call them a myth), that seems like a flaw in the system to me. Your mileage may vary.
And fake news isn't a problem? I give you President Donald J Trump. I'm waiting for them to formally define "Trumpfact" 1984-style and be done with it.
At an institutional level, yes. That's kind of my point, but it's deeper and more multifaceted than that. It wasn't just becoming entwined so deeply with the Republic, it was that they only did so at the level of the Senate. The Jedi are a top-down institution, when I believe they need to be a bottom-up one. They are inward looking when they need to be focused outward. They are passive and reactive when they need to be proactive and involved.
I'm trying to find a way to phrase it that better conveys my intent, and I just don't have the words. One last try though, the "old" Jedi are more concerned with the Force and their connection to it, all study, meditation and contemplation. When, like Qui-Gon, they should instead be guided by the Force, not to a look at the Force itself, but to action in the everyday lives of the galaxy's citizens. Less Unifying Force, and more Living Force, though I feel that muddies the waters even further with definitions of imprecise repute.
How does one keep a war out of civilian areas?
And it's a war of secession, so "brokering a peace" looks a lot like losing, something The Clone Wars seemingly failed to comprehend.
...which he wouldn't have been able to do if they were really that disconnected from the Republic.
How did you get the impression from my post that I was saying fake news isn't a problem?
It feels like it goes against your point to some extent.
...Just In Time For Breakfast?
And, hats off to the avatar. Was listening to Brave on the way to work as it happens.
Isn't 'Attack' the verb?Uhm, there's no verb there...
No? Attack is a noun ("The attack of the clones"). To be a verb, it would read "The Clones Attack".
Uhm, there's no verb there...
Doh! Quite right.
I like the title. It's basically telling me that Luke will be pivitol in the movie, and that's where The Force Awakens was heading. I just hope he doesn't die.
I have to admit, I've been expecting one of The Big Three to die in each movie since Han in TFA. I'm hoping since Carrie Fisher died and they ruled out CGI Leia in EpIX, that Leia will be TLJ's casualty and Luke's death will be saved for the end of EpIX. That way we can have at least one of The Big Three in the entire trilogy.
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That would work to. My thought was that each trilogy would bring in a new generation of characters, while killing of the any survivors of the previous trilogy. So if we get another trilogy it would focus on the child(ren) of at least one of the new trio of Rey, Finn and Poe, and would feature them in supporting roles, before killing them off to make way for another new generation in theoretical fifth trilogy.
I don't think they should start some trend of killing off the previous generation in every new Trilogy. besides that just being a bad idea in my opinion, its way too predictable. Not every hero needs to die on screen. Honestly, I'd like to see them break out of the "Skywalker family" stuff for episodes 10+, maybe have a bigger time skip or even go far back in the timeline.
Plus, its not like Rey/Finn/Poe's actors will be old enough to even be the "old generation" by the time Episode X is being made, and I don't think anyone would want them recast just because, for example, Daisy Ridley won't even be middle aged for, what, 15 to 20 years? (she's 24 right now, and I think she'd have to be at least in her 40s to be "Old" Rey). That's at least Episode 13-15 at that point if disney sticks to its schedule.
Plus, its not like Rey/Finn/Poe's actors will be old enough to even be the "old generation" by the time Episode X is being made, and I don't think anyone would want them recast just because, for example, Daisy Ridley won't even be middle aged for, what, 15 to 20 years? (she's 24 right now, and I think she'd have to be at least in her 40s to be "Old" Rey). That's at least Episode 13-15 at that point if disney sticks to its schedule.
