The Battle of Procyon V (Beware: Enterprise S3 Spoilers)

[Kaidonni]

I've been wondering - after the destruction of the spheres in the Delphic Expanse, would the Battle of Procyon V actually happen? The Xindi attack on Earth was the result of interference in the timeline by the Sphere Builders - they knew that the Federation was going to defeat them, so they set out to prevent it from ever existing by fabricating a clever story that Humanity would destroy the Xindi in the future, thereby motivating the Xindi to take action to protect themselves and destroy Humanity first.

However, in that original timeline where the Federation won at the Battle of Procyon V, there was never any attack on Earth by the Xindi, Enterprise never went into the Expanse, and the sphere network was never destroyed; the Sphere Builders were able to continue transforming the area in preparation for their invasion. With the destruction of the spheres, wouldn't the Sphere Builders have lost their beach-head and be unable to invade in the 26th century? Were they relying on the spheres and the transformed space in order to launch their invasion? It'd be ironic - by meddling with the timeline and trying to ensure their conquest over our galaxy/universe, they ensure they are never able to invade in the first place.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

With the destruction of the spheres, wouldn't the Sphere Builders have lost their beach-head and be unable to invade in the 26th century?

Exactly. The Sphere Builders were wiped out in the 22nd century, so there'd be nothing left of them (or the Expanse) by the 26th.

 

[Kemaiku]

The timeline as it goes is.

1. The Sphere Builders contact the Xindi through an interdimensional holographic projection system, as they cannot manifest in our universe physically. They are in the 26th century, they're transmitting through time as well.

2. They convince the Xindi that Earth will destroy, since at some point after 2387 abut before 2556, the Xindi society will recover from the destruction of their original homeworld, become an advanced society, join the Federation and contribute to it, including the Enterprise-J. Possibly weapons that pose a threat to the Sphere Builders.

3. They do this a long time before 2153, allowing for other races to be manipulated into creating the Spheres, which by the mid 2150's have resulted in the Delphic Expanse, which never existed in the original timeline.

4. Once enough Spheres are built that they feel reasonably safe to interfere further, and Starfleet just launched Enterprise, they have the Xindi build the prototype weapon, then the full sized one after it's success.

5. During the mission by Enterprise, Daniel's takes Archer to 2556 to the Battle, where the Expanse now covers half the galaxy and every race has joined together to defeat the Sphere Builders in their "present" where they can now cross over into our galaxy given enough of it has changed for them to live in. Starfleet has amassed at the portal site as they flood through.

6. Enterprise destroys the Spheres, Daniels now reports to Archer that the future has changed, the Expanse dissipates long before 2556, so the battle never happened. The Sphere Builders of that time now have nowhere to cross over, and are stuck in their own universe forever. Well...unless they were doing this to other races and universes too.

The Spheres needed to be planted so that the natural flow of time would terraform the Milky Way significantly for them to even exist without dissolving shortly after arriving. But they needed an advanced enough worforce also desparate for guidance that would follow them and be able to construct them.

We'll probably never know what the "real" 2556 or Enterprise J look like now.

 

[Ithekro]

Or they tried again, and failed in the 26th century. Or if one wants to get temporal, the tired first in the 26th century, and then tried again in the 22nd century, and failed both times. The 22nd century time was the final defeat, while the 26th century defeat was their first major setback.

 

[at Quark's]

"My advice in making sense of temporal paradoxes is simple. Don't even try."

...to quote Janeway

 

[1001001]

Moving to Enterprise

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Moving to Enterprise

I wish I could.

 

[Markonian]

^ What Ithekro said.
But if you seek more background on these events - STO explores the origin of the Sphere Builders, and their effects on other timelines. Which culminates in the timeless Battle of Procyon V.

 

[Dukhat]

Yep, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. After the spheres were destroyed, that timeline ceased to exist.

 

[Kemaiku]

Yes and no, the Sphere Builders exist in another universe, therefore no timeline change can stop the initial problem.

That's why the Xindi War still happens in the Kelvin timeline resulting in the events of Star Trek Beyond. I suppose that battle went vastly worse for them given how much more advanced Starfleet would be in that 26th century.

They did "monitor" multiple timelines and realities at once, watching for ones favourable to them, but only able to manipulate one. The Prime timeline of the 22nd century.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the Xindi War still happens in the Kelvin timeline

Not true, because the war (and the final defeat of the Sphere Builders) happened well before the Kelvin/Prime divergence.

 

[Kemaiku]

Not true, because the war (and the final defeat of the Sphere Builders) happened well before the Kelvin/Prime divergence.

You know what I damn well mean, it happens from the perspective of both universes, since Enterprise is still part of the Kelvin timelines past too.

Edison, the Franklin and the MACO's are all from that era, and he even mentions having been a serving MACO during the Xindi War. Since it happens in their shared past, and the Sphere Builders are outside our universe and even mention monitoring several, they're aware of the events of both Trek timelines we know of. It affects both their development since a Xindi War veteran took out the Kelvinverse Enterprise.

 

[F. King Daniel]

My opinion is that the Enterprise-J future and 26th century battle were wiped out when the Delphic Expanse was destroyed in "Zero Hour". No Expanse, no invasion, no war. Also, no mention of the Delphic Expanse (which was growing and filled 1/4 of the galaxy by the 26th century) in TOS, TNG, DS9 or Voyager.

In the episode it's described as one of several possible futures the Sphere Builders were examining, so I'm not sure it's set in stone to begin with.

I'm curious how removing Archer from his rightful place in the 22nd century didn't radically alter the future as it did in "Shockwave"...

 

[Dukhat]

We already know that the alternate 26th century future was wiped out, because neither TOS, TNG and the other shows had anything to do with the Sphere Builders and the expanding Expanse.

 

[LtChange]

What if the Sphere Builders retreated after their defeat in the Expanse, but have never given up, and they come back in force in the 26th century? I actually don't think that the Sphere Builders were eradicated and I don't see why could not make another attack on our space 400 years later after they have licked their wounds and prepared for a few hundred years.

 

[Ithekro]

Or Daniels exaggerated to motivate Archer. And then told him something to ease his mind so he wouldn't need to be bothered by the on going Cold War again, since Daniels knew Archer's part in the war was over and the future would rather keep the past intact without Archer attempting to meddle with it. They'll leave that to Kirk a hundred or so years later (meddling menace that he was).

 

[KennyB]

I just enjoy the spoiler warning for the 13 year old story arc........;-)

 

[F. King Daniel]

Daniels seemed to consider the battle to be to be one of many possible futures when he spoke to Archer. I don't think it was ever set in stone.

 

[Tuskin38]

We already know that the alternate 26th century future was wiped out, because neither TOS, TNG and the other shows had anything to do with the Sphere Builders and the expanding Expanse.

Daniels said the Sphere Builders saw themselves loosing the battle, so they contacted the Xindi in the past to stop the formation of the Federation.

They were only modifying the past to stop that possible future, not to set it up. Those spheres seen in the battle are not from the 2150s so the TNG era wouldn't have to deal with them.

 

[Galaxy]

From Star Trek Online

Spoiler

The Sphere Builders are actually a Delta Quadrant race called the Tuterians. They used Solanae technology to protect themselves from the Borg, and formed an alliance with what remained of the Krenim, after the Krenim Empire fell to the resurrected Vaadwuar (Thanks Voyager) helping them create (or I guess recreate) the Krenim temporal weapon. This Krenim weapon our characters then employ to fight the Iconians, however ahhh things do not go according to plan, and among other things, the Borg conquer the Alpha Quadrant. In order to unbotch the botching, we botch the history of the Tuterians. They get assimilated by the Borg, and the survivors, having not mastered the Solanae technology become deformed, no longer able to live in normal space. The flee to subspace. Starfleet says better them then us. Anyways, the Tuterians learn about Starfleets involvement in their misfortune through a guy named Noye. He has a an ax to grind with Starfleet because we, wait for it, accidentally erased his girlfriend and child from the time line, which he knows about because of temporal shielding. Shit happens. He convinces them to build the spheres in the past. They also try to wipe out the Kelvinverse which our character prevents. Unfortunately the game did not give me the option of cranking those things to max.

I hope that is somewhat coherent, the story has many twists. Btw. The game does not make it clear if future guy is Noye or Daniels (long story) himself.