Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.

[roseake]

I have to ask why you wouldn't try to finish the episode? What was it about it that turned you off so hard?

Honestly, I think it was back when my shipping sensibilities were super duper sensitive and Chakotay had that lady friend? So I rejected it out of hand and never went back to it. There might be a number of episodes my silly young self did that to, I should probably do a bit of a rewatch sometime.

 

[Catarina]

Episode Coda

apart from the episode itself, I noticed kate errr janeway, whomever was sitting on a stool with wheels (ala doctors office like) and she scoots back so Tuvok can walk past her. It's in frame. so my question would be---uh wouldn't Tuvok see a chair flinging back? well no because it's her dream but it just adds to the wtf for me.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'd absorbed all of Voyager's technical stuff as soon as the show premiered, including that big Master Systems cutaway diagram at the back of the bridge - which shows Voyager as having spare warp and computer cores.

Flashforward to episodes where they lose their one and only warp core, and one and only computer core and Teenage Me was somewhat bewildered. Why aren't they using the spares?

Now I'm older, I realise the guys doing the background graphics, and who write the technical manuals and techhie magazine articles have zero contact with the guys writing the stories, and those cutaways and technical info although very cool aren't to be taken as gospel.

Flashforward to today, and the rather excellent Star Trek Book has a little cutaway of Voyager in it, with just the one warp core and just the one computer core thus accurately reflecting the stories. And reminding me of all of this.

 

[Scout101]

popped in and out of the BBC marathon the other day, had the unfortunate timing to catch part of Threshold. Unless I missed it in the technobabble, one of the worst 'Gilligan's Island, must stay stranded' types of contrivances in the series (in addition to one of the worst Trek episodes).

So, they've got a propulsion method that can allow them to occupy all points in the universe at once, and they can just re-emege into normal space wherever they want, right? Downside being that you slowly turn into a lizard. They also hold the cure for lizard-ness, and have a Doctor that will be immune to the effects, thus free to treat people. Also it happens slowly, so the crew would cooperate for a while.

WHY don't they just go back to Earth and then line up outside sickbay for their anti-lizard shots, again? Of all of the 'almost worked out' attempts to get home, this one actually WORKED, and they just chose not to for some reason?

Again, I know, terrible episode, but come on, it wasn't even a stretch. Answer was explicitly stated, just ignored.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Why couldn't they send one person at warp 10? The person would have orders to pop into Starfleet headquarters and let command know what was going on. What to be prepared for. If I understand correctly, Tom was able to bring the shuttle to a stop near Voyager when he realized they were looking for him. It sounds to me like even if they did occupy all points in the universe at once, they would have some control over where to stop or where to end up.

This is just my opinion, but they took something that could have been a really awesome concept (being able to occupy all points of the universe at once) and turned into something cringe-worthy. I know most people do think it's cringe-worthy.

 

[Scout101]

my issue is just that it should have failed somewhere to make it unusable (like slipsteam was, reason they set that aside). This one worked perfectly, other than the 100% reversible lizard thing, and they just abandoned it anyway. No reason to even use the one guy to send word, or get supplies, or whatever. Also kills any 'race against the clock' episodes, because you've got a shuttle that can magically be anywhere instantly.

But they show the tech working just fine, no reason it couldn't scale to Voyager, and then they just dump it. It needed to not work somehow, or not how they thought, or something. This worked perfectly.

Like I said, recognize that it's one of Trek's worst episodes, but it's just crappy writing in general.

 

[Sophie74656]

Why couldn't they send one person at warp 10? The person would have orders to pop into Starfleet headquarters and let command know what was going on. What to be prepared for. If I understand correctly, Tom was able to bring the shuttle to a stop near Voyager when he realized they were looking for him. It sounds to me like even if they did occupy all points in the universe at once, they would have some control over where to stop or where to end up.

This is just my opinion, but they took something that could have been a really awesome concept (being able to occupy all points of the universe at once) and turned into something cringe-worthy. I know most people do think it's cringe-worthy.

They didn't have the ability to control where they came out of warp 10. Tom simply shut down the drive on a hunch that it would take him back to his starting point, which it did.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

But they show the tech working just fine, no reason it couldn't scale to Voyager, and then they just dump it. It needed to not work somehow, or not how they thought, or something. This worked perfectly.

I don't think they ever directly addressed the issue of scaling it to Voyager one way or the other, so I can buy that for some reason or other, it wouldn't be practical to scale to the entire ship. As the mass of the main ship increases, probably so does the sheering force on the warp pylons

But such is the large gaping hole in the premise for the episode that even if you accept that AND if they made the lizard thing irreversible - they'd still be quitters on this technology.

Why not turn the shuttle into a probe, outfit it with a bunch of sensors, and use it to look for anomalies like wormholes that could get you home? Why not use it as a communications vehicle back and forth between Voyager and Earth, flying under computer control? And before you give up on using it to get home... would a human still be susceptible to lizard syndrome if they were suspended in the shuttle transporter during the trip like Scotty in Relics? It's theoretically a near instantaneous journey. You wouldn't need to be in the buffer that long.

They never, ever explore alternative uses for the technology to improve their lot, even if they can't use it to get home. It just makes the crew look incredibly complacent about their predicament, despite all the lamentation about missing home. Sorry to beat a horse that's been dead 20 years, but gosh it's just such a shockingly ill-thought out episode against its repercussions on the show.

 

[Scout101]

yeah, not good.

I don't know if they said it explicitly or not, but at the very least, they should have 100% star maps of the galaxy (universe?) in the database now. they definitely used examples of that to prove that he was 'everywhere' when he went travelling, so Stellar Cartography should be basically out of work except for recent events. run that through the computer and should be able to find every apparent wormhole, advanced civilization, ancient mega-devices, etc.

If not scalable to Voyager, only take about an hour to have Lt. Lizard shuttle everyone to Earth in groups of 8 or so, not that many people on the ship. Grab any personal effects, tech they obtained, copy of the computer data, and then just scuttle the ship on the last trip. Now everyone's home except Voyager herself. But if the shuttle could handle the sheering force, not sure why Voyager couldn't. Did fine with slipstream, transwarp, etc. Seems to be a pretty aerodynamic profile. And it's a quick flight, just put all non-flight power into structural integrity, install extra fields everywhere, very doable.

Definitely one of the worst offenders for magic tech that was forgotten about because it would have ruined (or in this case ended) the series.

 

[LJones41]

What exactly is this thread supposed to be about?

 

[Tracy Trek]

What exactly is this thread supposed to be about?

It started out, I think, to discuss instances where the viewers wondered WTF the writers or producers were thinking when they did something. The thread got derailed big-time for a while.

 

[Nerubian]

How did season 6 end up with 2 Fair Haven episodes?. Also the idea that more than 1 of the crew would have any interest in 19th century Ireland and all the relevant downsides of that era is pretty far fetched. Im half Irish myself and have zero interest in reliving those days outside of reading a book or wiki article on them.

 

[Nerubian]

S7E9-10 Flesh and Blood.

The writers want to do another take on rights and sentience so its hologram time again except they choose a very bad anchor for the story.

The Hirogen should be long gone, Voyager is years of Warp 9 travel beyond their territory. But ok they're still around and have this space station just sitting there in deep space completely by itself 1000s of light years away from most Hirogen ships.
They have somehow spread the holodeck technology given to them years ago to the far reaches of their space, so quickly infact its old news when Voyager 'finally' arrives at this training station. (Hirogen must secretly use transwarp).

They are using holodeck technology for 100% of the exact reason that it was given to them but Janeway moans about it being her fault for sharing technology, her fault that unrepentant pathological killers are being killed by their own creations which is exactly what they themselves want.
Keep in mind Janeway gave them this technology to encourage them to hunt holograms in favour of killing humanoids and other biological creatures for Voyagers own benefit and everyone else in the DQ. Again 100% success with this plan.

Despite achieving all the intended outcomes, with no change to the benefit garnered behind the reasons for giving it in the first place, Janeway takes it upon herself to risk her ship and crew to destroy these holograms even though no one is asking for her help, especially the Hirogen.
She saves the crew of one of their ships who are completely ungrateful, and generally make it extremely clear they would gladly kill her and her crew in the blink of an eye if given the chance.

The holograms while sentient turn out to be pretty devious and viscious, funnily enough, exactly as they were designed. The episode comes to an end with the contradictory message that if you have two groups of bad apples the biological ones should be helped and even depicted as the not so bad guys at the end, even though they are really really bad. Even the doctor himself seeing the same flaws clearer in the holograms than the Hirogen.

TLR
Complete disregard for the lore of the show - ignoring why it was given in the first place
Nonsensical motivation for Janeway's actions
Weak Chakotay and bridge crew for not making more effort to shut down her insanity
Poor moral message

 

[manuel]

The most WTF moments for me were Janeways erratic behavier:
One episode she talks about peace and cooporation and in the next she is happy that the photon torpedo that they used to disable a borg ship destroys it instead!

Especially in the episode where they find another federation ship and she tortures someone. The whole episode I thought she was under some alien inflience, but she was not!

 

[φ of π]

The episode where they find the civilization that uses the space-folding technology and loves stories.

Instead of trying to steal the tech that the aliens wouldn't give them, why not just ask them to use their space-folding tech on Voyager remotely?

 

[Sophie74656]

The episode where they find the civilization that uses the space-folding technology and loves stories.

Instead of trying to steal the tech that the aliens wouldn't give them, why not just ask them to use their space-folding tech on Voyager remotely?

This was explained in the episode, they did ask and the aliens had no interest in actually helping them.

 

[Finn]

Watching it now. Few things...

I noticed the magistrate declined as if Voyager would be taking the technology with them. Nothing about Voyager being thrown 40K light years in the same manner as the catapult in Conspiracy about five years down the road.

Secondly, I was taken back by how it didn't occur to Janeway or Tuvok that one of them could take the time to read the Canon of Laws... I'm sure Tuvok would have found a loophole.

How convenient they had a port ready to fit the trajectory matrix in, two holes, with the right size....

 

[The Lonely Man]

Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy.

The Doctor unable to tell fantasy from reality is confined in sickbay and trapped behind a forcefield.
Would this be the same forcefield we see The Doctor repeatedly passing through in sickbay to treat isolated patients ?

 

[Sophie74656]

Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy.

The Doctor unable to tell fantasy from reality is confined in sickbay and trapped behind a forcefield.
Would this be the same forcefield we see The Doctor repeatedly passing through in sickbay to treat isolated patients ?

Different forcefields. A quarantine forcefield would be programmed to recognize his program and allow him to pass through. The forcefield to contain him would have different programming to not allow him to pass through....at least that's my assumption.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Scorpion

When Chakotay was quick to break deliberately the last order given by Janeway (before she undergoes an operation) to maintain at all costs the alliance she has spent with Borgs, led by Seven. Then at the end of the episode, while he joins her in the holodeck to talk with her about the Engineering report, he takes advantage of this impromptu face-to-face, to assure her that disobeying her orders was one of the most difficult things he has ever had to do.

The truth is that Chakotay disagreed with Janeway since the beginning about the alliance with the Borgs, that he hated as much as Cardassians, if it is not more, especially since his meeting with a colony earlier. And he took advantage of the first opportunity which was offered to him, Janeway's temporary incapacity, to circumvent the orders of his superior officer (for lack of having been able to or knowing how to convince Janeway to follow his idea, I guess), under the pretext that he thas taken a tactical decision... as if Janeway's initial decision has been taken in a moment of temporary madness (for me, she has taken a tactical decision too, whatever it was a good or a right one).
Come one, Chak, your decision was based only on a visceral fear, distrust and loathing of Borgs that even your religious beliefs and human qualitiies have never managed to exceed. Result: it was easier to hide behind the "tactical decision" to justify your behaviour than to recognize your weakness, as if it was going to decrease you in the eyes of Janeway.

It was a stupid move and worst, this episode marked the first scratch in his relationship of trust with Janeway, IMHO. The second being in Equinox with Lessing.