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Jar Jar Binks and Anakin Skywalker... am I the only one who understood what George Lucas made?

When it comes to STAR WARS. there's just no way to ever find the answers to the whole story. I know it's corny, but right out of the gate, with the sacred Original Trilogy, we're treated to Ben's "the truths we cling to depend on our point of view." So, really, any spin on any thing in STAR WARS is not only possible, but plausible. In that view, yeah ... why not? Have Windu's view's change due to what he saw, or something to that effect. But still ...

It's in the final thing that Annie informed Mace, before hand, that Palpatine - Annie's own, personal friend and mentor - was, in fact, "the Sith Lord we've been looking for." What's more, when the Chancellor gets threatened by Mace, initially, Palpatine spells it out, for him, he says, "... I am the Senate." To which Windu's all like, "... not yet." What does Mace want ... a Formal Letter to finally, kind of, like, "get it"? I mean ... Palpatine's been acting so suspicious that Mace has him spied on, before any of this. Annie tells him flat out that Palpatine's the Sith. And now, Palpatine's verbally confirming it. And Mace's all, like, "No, you're NOT!!!" for NO reason. I mean .... any way you want to slice it, Palpatine's killing the nameless extras didn't tell Windu anything he didn't already know ...
 
2takesfrakes said:
When it comes to STAR WARS. there's just no way to ever find the answers to the whole story. I know it's corny, but right out of the gate, with the sacred Original Trilogy, we're treated to Ben's "the truths we cling to depend on our point of view." So, really, any spin on any thing in STAR WARS is not only possible, but plausible. In that view, yeah ... why not? Have Windu's view's change due to what he saw, or something to that effect. But still ...

It's in the final thing that Annie informed Mace, before hand, that Palpatine - Annie's own, personal friend and mentor - was, in fact, "the Sith Lord we've been looking for." What's more, when the Chancellor gets threatened by Mace, initially, Palpatine spells it out, for him, he says, "... I am the Senate." To which Windu's all like, "... not yet." What does Mace want ... a Formal Letter to finally, kind of, like, "get it"? I mean ... Palpatine's been acting so suspicious that Mace has him spied on, before any of this. Annie tells him flat out that Palpatine's the Sith. And now, Palpatine's verbally confirming it. And Mace's all, like, "No, you're NOT!!!" for NO reason. I mean .... any way you want to slice it, Palpatine's killing the nameless extras didn't tell Windu anything he didn't already know ...
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If instead of taking a swing at Palpatine Windu stabt him in the end he would be right :)
 
Ithekro said:
And we still don't know what happened to Jar Jar Binks.
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No. No, we don't. We can only speculate ...

He and the rest of the funky, computer-generated aliens probably ended up in the recycle bin. The battledroids looked OK. The superbattledroids looked fake. Dax and Yoda looked patently fake - you could actually see the smears of pixelated colour making them up. Next thing you know, STAR WARS sequels start putting in CGI puppets of Tarkin and Leia who look just as fake. ILM keeps smoking its own publicity, I guess. They sort of think they can get away with anything and the undemanding public will just marvel at the sight ...

USS Firefly said:
If instead of taking a swing at Palpatine Windu stabt him in the end he would be right :)
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Even a fan could've written a superior screenplay to what George Lucas did!
 
Winter Solstice said:
That's because the Jedi of the PT are unwise, lacking in basic competency, and unlikable ... because of their overwhelming arrogance - a point demonstrated, often, by Windu, and explicitly stated by Yoda.
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Which makes it very difficult to care about them, want them to succeed or be upset when they lose.
 
2takesfrakes said:
No. No, we don't. We can only speculate ...

He and the rest of the funky, computer-generated aliens probably ended up in the recycle bin. The battledroids looked OK. The superbattledroids looked fake. Dax and Yoda looked patently fake - you could actually see the smears of pixelated colour making them up. Next thing you know, STAR WARS sequels start putting in CGI puppets of Tarkin and Leia who look just as fake. ILM keeps smoking its own publicity, I guess. They sort of think they can get away with anything and the undemanding public will just marvel at the sight ...

Even a fan could've written a superior screenplay to what George Lucas did!
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Funny thing is, that's kind of what happened to the Geonosians in the new continuity-they were wiped out once their usefulness in helping with the Death star was no longer needed.
 
Which makes it very difficult to care about them, want them to succeed or be upset when they lose.
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So . . . we're supposed to cheer for the Jedi when they are consistently uber-successful? Only successful people are worth cheering for . . . or caring for?



It got lost in a mix because a lot of people I know who've seen the film didn't even make that connection, even though Lucas used the exact same wording for both Palpatine and Windu in their relevant scenes. I dunno why, to me it seemed pretty obvious.
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It seems pretty obvious to me, as well, considering that Lucas had reissued the Original Trilogy (with some changes) only two years before "The Phantom Menace" hit the movie theaters. And all six movies are available on DVD.
 
Solid Snack said:
Funny thing is, that's kind of what happened to the Geonosians in the new continuity-they were wiped out once their usefulness in helping with the Death star was no longer needed.
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The Geonosins were a really horrible idea to start with, though ... so, I don't mind, at all. On one hand, George Lucas wants to rip off Classic Ray Harryhausen movies, and on the other, Lucas has to shoehorn it into his "story," such as it is. The CGI renderings of these things is basically, "close enough is good enough."

Why he chose to do that, I can only guess at, but I suspect it's to contain costs. As heavily as they feature, that was an unfortunate mistake. Their "reality" is not helped by their ridiculous language, either. This very odd alternating between fart noises, burps and buzzes in rapid succession ...it's risible. And we're meant to believe that they're capable of designing and/or constructing the Death Star! Better to just pretend like it never happened ...
 
LJones41 said:
It seems pretty obvious to me, as well, considering that Lucas had reissued the Original Trilogy (with some changes) only two years before "The Phantom Menace" hit the movie theaters. And all six movies are available on DVD.
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What does that have to do with it?
 
LJones41 said:
So . . . we're supposed to cheer for the Jedi when they are consistently uber-successful? Only successful people are worth cheering for . . . or caring for?
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Did I say successful? I would settle for competent, and identifiable and sympathetic. Arrogant, incompetent people (in fiction, mind you) are not generally considered sympathetic. Arrogance, since the time of the Greeks, has usually been used in a character who will eventually suffer tragedy because of their arrogance-often called hubris.

I would love to cheer for the Jedi if I thought that what they were doing was right and was the best thing for the galaxy. But, instead, we just get told that the Jedi=good and the Sith=bad. At least we saw the Empire would do and understood the Rebels' plight and what could be lost if the Rebels failed and the Empire won. Without pointing to EU or books, what is gained by the Jedi winning?
 
The Geonosians were actually in part based on an original concept for the Neimoudians, when Lucas decided to make them practical instead (and have them look a lot like the "Duros" cantina aliens). That's kind of why the Geonosians look similar to the battle droids with the long snouts-the droids were supposed to be based on the appearence of the Neimoudians. Given that it's heavily implied the Geonosians created the battle droids anyway it still fits. It's not the first time Lucas-or any other Star Wars director-has recycled concepts left from earlier films. The new Disney stuff in particular owes a lot to Ralph Mcquarrie's designs.
 
2takesfrakes said:
When it comes to STAR WARS. there's just no way to ever find the answers to the whole story. I know it's corny, but right out of the gate, with the sacred Original Trilogy, we're treated to Ben's "the truths we cling to depend on our point of view." So, really, any spin on any thing in STAR WARS is not only possible, but plausible. In that view, yeah ... why not? Have Windu's view's change due to what he saw, or something to that effect. But still ...

It's in the final thing that Annie informed Mace, before hand, that Palpatine - Annie's own, personal friend and mentor - was, in fact, "the Sith Lord we've been looking for." What's more, when the Chancellor gets threatened by Mace, initially, Palpatine spells it out, for him, he says, "... I am the Senate." To which Windu's all like, "... not yet." What does Mace want ... a Formal Letter to finally, kind of, like, "get it"? I mean ... Palpatine's been acting so suspicious that Mace has him spied on, before any of this. Annie tells him flat out that Palpatine's the Sith. And now, Palpatine's verbally confirming it. And Mace's all, like, "No, you're NOT!!!" for NO reason. I mean .... any way you want to slice it, Palpatine's killing the nameless extras didn't tell Windu anything he didn't already know ...
Click to expand...
I think you totally misunderstood that entire exchange. Palpatine saying "I am the senate" had nothing to do with him being the Sith Lord, all he was saying was the he was completely in control of the Senate. Mace's "not yet" was just saying that he didn't completely control the Senate, and also had nothing to do with him being the Sith.
 
Has anyone ever see this interview with Ahmed Best, the actor and voice for Jar Jar Binks? Best talks about how painful it was to deal with the Jar Jar backlash.

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Something I didn't ever think about, was Lucas and Best essentially pioneering motion capture technology we see used in LOTR, Avatar, Star Wars, the new Planet of the Apes films, many comic book movies and other movies these days.
 
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M.A.C.O. said:
Has anyone ever see this interview with Ahmed Best, the actor and voice for Jar Jar Binks? Best talks about how painful it was to deal with the Jar Jar backlash.

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Something I didn't ever think about, was Lucas and Best essentially pioneering motion capture technology we see used in LOTR, Avatar, Star Wars, the new Planet of the Apes films, many comic book movies and other movies these days.
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Indeed. Technology was all incredibly groundbreaking and revolutionary for the time. Not just the motion capture, but also the digital film process and cameras. Just look up how big those cameras were in the behind the scenes and you'll realize that much of the tech taken for granted in contemporary productions was very much innovated as part of the prequel development.

As I get older, I gain much more respect for the process that Lucas and Best have gone through and the flak they have taken for it. I certainly don't agree with Lucas' decisions on how he made the PT, and think the story and characters are severely lacking, but I think they are all gorgeous films. The production value in the visual effects and art design are very much on display. I just want it attached to a better story.
 
Another plus for Lucas and the PT is that he tried to do something different than his orginal movies. New characters (not just the 2.0 versions of ones from the OT), new worlds, new stories, new elements to flesh out his universe. I said this about TFA and now that Rogue One is out, it does seem like the strategy at Disney is to make "Greatest Hits" Star Wars films. Reuse, recycle and renew everything people know from the OT, till the end of time.
 
While the PT and Lucas sometimes take a pounding from fans and critics, and don't think anyone has every been critical of ILM for those films because the were pushing technology hard from the special editions onwards, much like they did when they were basically founded for Star Wars.
 
I hated Jar Jar. He was offensive and annoying, and I never got the 'joke'. The Phantom Menace went off the rails for me as soon as he showed up. I got nothing against Ahmed Best, but Jar Jar was a misguided attempt at humor or to sell toys or something, to appeal to kids I guess.

I also didn't like Jake Lloyd for Anakin, but I don't blame him or his limited performance. I blame Lucas for that. Despite my dislike of Lloyd's performance overall I do think he did a good job with his farewell scene with Shmi. I also thought his introduction to the Jedi Council was decent as well. Lucas at least set up that rocky relationship that came to a head in Revenge of the Sith.

To me, the prequels didn't need kid characters or kid-directed 'humor', not for the story the prequels were telling. The prequels needed to have the tone of Rogue One or the LOTR films.

Unlike many I didn't have a problem with Hayden Christensen for Anakin. He didn't get the best dialogue or writing to work with, but I thought Christensen knew how to go dark pretty well. I also enjoyed his scene with Shmi as well. And his turn to Vader. His love affair with Padme wasn't the most convincing, but I blame Lucas for that. He set that on a weak foundation in The Phantom Menace and it never really worked since that point. I wish Christensen had been chosen from the start. And that either Anakin had started Episode I as a teen or adult.

The scenes with Anakin marching on the Jedi Temple and the younglings. When he's on Mustafar and turns slowly to the camera with the yellow Sith eyes. And how he cuts down the Separatist leaders. I thought he handled that well. And his interactions with Obi-Wan during The Duel, though I thought that epic fight went on too long.
 
Jar Jar Binks should've been a CGI Admiral Ackbar. It would've worked, everybody would've frigging loved it and the market was already there for it. From a concept point of view, George Lucas wouldn't have lost out on anything, because I'm pretty sure Ackbar's people are water-dwellers, regardless. But George wanted to rip off Roger Rabbit so badly. He's not happy if he's not bastardising better works, because he seems to feel it elevates his pictures.

Annie Skywalker surprised the hell out of me in Attack of the Clones, when I first saw him in that elevator, with Obi-Wan. He's all skinny and lanky, with his robe hanging off him, like a curtain on a rod .... seriously, I thought Lucas had lost his mind. When Hayden bulked up, he did look better, but he never really got brawny.

All that stuff they had to do to the Vader outfit to accommodate that scrawny bastard made the overall look seem off. When you see David Prowse in the outfit in earlier STAR WARS adventures, he's bursting with himself in that black rubber. But I've seen Hayden in one or two other things and when he's got better material and direction ... I really don't mind him. He's got some talent. But everything about Annie's turn to the Dark Side was lame and laughable. "Anakin ... you must CHOOSE!!!" hahaha!!!

JD said:
I think you totally misunderstood that entire exchange. Palpatine saying "I am the senate" had nothing to do with him being the Sith Lord, all he was saying was the he was completely in control of the Senate. Mace's "not yet" was just saying that he didn't completely control the Senate, and also had nothing to do with him being the Sith.
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It's possible I've misunderstood the Senate thing, but the writing, directing, acting and editing of the Arresting Palpatine scene were all so atrocious that it's kind of become this thing where the audience has to make up their own minds.
 
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