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B'elanna Torres pairing - Tom or Harry

For one thing, I can't imagine a 24th Century Human Race that isn't composed of The Beautiful People. Nerds, geeks, misfits and outcasts are, more or less "bred out," if you like. Besides, what woman of the future would endure pregnancy and childbirth, when they can have test-tube babies that develop in vats of embryonic fluid for 9 months and are "born" once gestation is complete.

Even today ... would any parent really want their kid to suffer social awkwardness? Of course not. From the father's semen and the mother's eggs, there's almost too much choice involved, in custom-designing your future child. Thus helping to ensure that they'll grow up with every possible advantage. Unfortunately, this does invite "trends" and such. For example, "this year's trend" might be this or that complexion, or this or that hair texture ... and so on.

But more basic than that, even, strength of mind could be ensured, as well. Barclay's psychological impedimentia would be wiped out, along with ... hell, I don't know ... near-sightedness, or uh ... weight problems and so on. Not enhanced like genetic superheroes, or anything like that. Just normal Humans fully prepared to live Life to its fullest ... to achieve that "bettering" of oneself that the 24th Century holds so dear.

We explicitly know that this isn't the case at all in Trek, though; the only acceptable and legal genetic engineering in the Federation is to correct heritable diseases, and anything else is illegal with pretty strict punishments. That was pretty firmly established by both DS9 (in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" among other episodes) and Voyager (in "Lineage"). And we saw (in TNG in "Unnatural Selection") what happened when the one human genetic engineering lab we've seen in 24th century Star Trek tried to engineer away disease through the development of a proactive immune system; just imagine how bad things could go if they tried to engineer away mental and social problems.

Also, you're putting a lot more on genetics than there actually is. It's almost certainly not going to be possible to "breed out" or engineer away psychological maladies or social dysfunctions, because those, even while likely having a genetic component in increasing the tendency towards it, aren't wholly genetic, but are in large part the result of learned behavior and experiences. Not everything about people is in the DNA, and there's some things that even infinite knowledge about DNA couldn't prevent.

And there's even an argument to make that trying to remove such things would be decreasing the psychological diversity of humanity to a potentially harmful level. Setting aside social problems, since those are absolutely completely independent from and unrelated to DNA, and just focusing on the psychological: Mental disorders for the most part aren't like biological diseases in the sense that they're a foreign or abnormal thing imposing themselves on a person. There are a few examples of mental disorders like that, yes, usually the result of brain damage. But most of them are instead just extreme examples of traits that in weaker levels are normal and even beneficial. They're more akin to, say, a fever; something that at a healthy level is a normal reaction to stimuli, but that in certain situations goes too far to the point of risking the well-being of the person experiencing it. They're the brain taking a pattern of behavior to an extreme for one reason or another, and you can't completely remove that possibility without snipping out that pattern of behavior entirely. Which is exactly why the therapy side of treatment nowadays isn't about curing, but about managing; about learning to adapt to patterns of thought so that you can deal with them in a healthy manner, rather than trying futility to stop the patterns of thought entirely.

You likely can't fully remove paranoia from the human psyche without removing pattern recognition, you likely can't remove anxiety without removing adrenaline responses to stress, and you likely can't remove psychosis without removing the ability to form counterfactuals. Even removing genetic tendencies could have unforeseen side effects in limiting the healthy mental development towards certain ends. What you can do is treat such things when they appear through therapy and medication, to allow people that suffer such problems the ability to function and thrive in society.
 
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Janeway probably knew Tuvok well enough to see his symptoms even though he was surely doing his best to hide them.

I'm pretty sure that she knew about Pon Farr but she also trusted Tuvok to go through this hardship according his own terms. And if he had to face difficulties during this period, she knew to count on him to inform her and to ask some help if necessary, help (help she would have offered with the utmost discretion).

(Don't forget that she was the only one to know his birthday and more important, his age after numerous researches. And because she knew that Tuvok would not want these informations to be known to others, she had asked him to come to her Ready Room to celebrate his birthday).
 
I'm pretty sure that she knew about Pon Farr but she also trusted Tuvok to go through this hardship according his own terms. And if he had to face difficulties during this period, she knew to count on him to inform her and to ask some help if necessary, help (help she would have offered with the utmost discretion).

(Don't forget that she was the only one to know his birthday and more important, his age after numerous researches. And because she knew that Tuvok would not want these informations to be known to others, she had asked him to come to her Ready Room to celebrate his birthday).
Absolutely, she basically just told him she knew what was going on and that she knows if he needs some time off or something. They've been friends for a long time. I love their relationship
 
Absolutely, she basically just told him she knew what was going on and that she knows if he needs some time off or something. They've been friends for a long time. I love their relationship

(ok, even if this is not the good thread, I'd like to answer to Sophie74656)

I love Janeway/Tuvok's friendship because there is a total trust and abnegation in each other (judgement and person) and as I often wrote once or twice, while Chakotay bore the title of First Officer, the real one aboard was Tuvok and you can be sure that our beloved Vulvan was the first one to watch carefully that there is neither harm or threat toward Kathryn Janeway (as the Capitain of Voyager and as his friend), the vessel & its crew.
-> I know that the writers made every effort to persuade us that Chakotay was the only person aboard in whom Janeway trusted entirely (and that in spite of the fact that he betrayed her repeatedly and as adviser, the events made him often wrong, except for B'Elena's "promotion" -> I talked about the situations met in the series, not the books!), while it was clear - at least for me - that Tuvok was the person she consulted for wise advices and the one who was present with her in very tense and desesperate situations.
Their firendship is quite exceptionnal because unique. But well, it's just an opinion. ;)
 
(ok, even if this is not the good thread, I'd like to answer to Sophie74656)

I love Janeway/Tuvok's friendship because there is a total trust and abnegation in each other (judgement and person) and as I often wrote once or twice, while Chakotay bore the title of First Officer, the real one aboard was Tuvok and you can be sure that our beloved Vulvan was the first one to watch carefully that there is neither harm or threat toward Kathryn Janeway (as the Capitain of Voyager and as his friend), the vessel & its crew.
-> I know that the writers made every effort to persuade us that Chakotay was the only person aboard in whom Janeway trusted entirely (and that in spite of the fact that he betrayed her repeatedly and as adviser, the events made him often wrong, except for B'Elena's "promotion" -> I talked about the situations met in the series, not the books!), while it was clear - at least for me - that Tuvok was the person she consulted for wise advices and the one who was present with her in very tense and desesperate situations.
Their firendship is quite exceptionnal because unique. But well, it's just an opinion. ;)
This this this!!

Janeway never entirely trusted Chakotay I think. He often disagreed with her. For example in Scorpion (It's fresh in my mind I just watched it) he never really agreed with her about the Borg alliance, and as soon as she was hurt he threw her plan out the window and went with his own. Tuvok, even if he disagreed with her, would have followed her wished exactly.
 
I love Janeway/Tuvok's friendship because there is a total trust and abnegation in each other (judgement and person) and as I often wrote once or twice, while Chakotay bore the title of First Officer, the real one aboard was Tuvok and you can be sure that our beloved Vulvan was the first one to watch carefully that there is neither harm or threat toward Kathryn Janeway (as the Capitain of Voyager and as his friend), the vessel & its crew.

I really like this view. Maybe this was part of the motivation for Tuvok's unfinished mutiny training scenario?
 
We explicitly know that this isn't the case at all in Trek, though; the only acceptable and legal genetic engineering in the Federation is to correct heritable diseases, and anything else is illegal with pretty strict punishments. That was pretty firmly established by both DS9 (in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" among other episodes) and Voyager (in "Lineage"). And we saw (in TNG in "Unnatural Selection") what happened when the one human genetic engineering lab we've seen in 24th century Star Trek tried to engineer away disease through the development of a proactive immune system; just imagine how bad things could go if they tried to engineer away mental and social problems.

Also, you're putting a lot more on genetics than there actually is. It's almost certainly not going to be possible to "breed out" or engineer away psychological maladies or social dysfunctions, because those, even while likely having a genetic component in increasing the tendency towards it, aren't wholly genetic, but are in large part the result of learned behavior and experiences. Not everything about people is in the DNA, and there's some things that even infinite knowledge about DNA couldn't prevent.

And there's even an argument to make that trying to remove such things would be decreasing the psychological diversity of humanity to a potentially harmful level. Setting aside social problems, since those are absolutely completely independent from and unrelated to DNA, and just focusing on the psychological: Mental disorders for the most part aren't like biological diseases in the sense that they're a foreign or abnormal thing imposing themselves on a person. There are a few examples of mental disorders like that, yes, usually the result of brain damage. But most of them are instead just extreme examples of traits that in weaker levels are normal and even beneficial. They're more akin to, say, a fever; something that at a healthy level is a normal reaction to stimuli, but that in certain situations goes too far to the point of risking the well-being of the person experiencing it. They're the brain taking a pattern of behavior to an extreme for one reason or another, and you can't completely remove that possibility without snipping out that pattern of behavior entirely. Which is exactly why the therapy side of treatment nowadays isn't about curing, but about managing; about learning to adapt to patterns of thought so that you can deal with them in a healthy manner, rather than trying futility to stop the patterns of thought entirely.

You likely can't fully remove paranoia from the human psyche without removing pattern recognition, you likely can't remove anxiety without removing adrenaline responses to stress, and you likely can't remove psychosis without removing the ability to form counterfactuals. Even removing genetic tendencies could have unforeseen side effects in limiting the healthy mental development towards certain ends. What you can do is treat such things when they appear through therapy and medication, to allow people that suffer such problems the ability to function and thrive in society.
A most thorough & thoughtful response! You made a good point, actually, about how correcting our genes doesn't necessarily correct all of our problems. My first thought, upon reading it was of that cliché of a beautiful supermodel glancing at her reflection in the looking glass and bemoaning "... I am so fat ... I'm so ugly!"

It's a tricky situation to navigate through, finding that balance between giving one's offspring the physical and mental ability to get through Life's problems and them feeling the need to invent their own, anyway. But that's where Parental Teachings enter into the equation. Human cloning should've never been shunned by Society, as if to say, "oh, no! We'll conjure up Frankenstein's monster and we're all going to pay a price."

In fact, I've even seen from the past, cloned sheep, or artificially inseminated sheep, being gestated in vats of some kind. It was quite successful at facilitating the development process. And it stands to reason that if it worked for one kind of mammal, that it could work for another.

In fact, if you look at cloned pets and so forth, I've never heard of an instance of this creating any kind of uncontrolled, unintended side effects of any kind. And this is using very primitive techniques. Primitive, in the sense that genes are syphoned off and manually injected into an egg, and so forth. It takes a few goes to get it right, often times. But these tools are here, now ... Today.

Centuries from now, I see no barriers to parents producing children by design, other than ... philosophical. And those can be challenging ... I don't dismiss them, lightly. But in STAR TREK, the Denobians, for example, use genetic engineering, without any problems, in the STAR TREK universe. Well, except that Denobians look retarded, but that's the way they like it, so ...
 
In Century City, a legal drama set a hundred years from now, there turned out to be a genocide going on at a string of fertility clinics, when they started assuring their customers that the "gay gene" would be deactivated.
 
I got the brotherly/sisterly feeling from Harry and B'Elanna from the start, but I didn't see the potential from Tom either. Until they started to nudge at it around season 3, then I became obsessed because I'm a sucker for "i hated you but then you weren't bad but then we got along and whoops" tropes :klingon:

On that note about Harry's girlfriend in the books, is anyone else up to date? Because the most recent development with them got me a little like ...... Kirsten wyd.
Was Reg Barclay not liked? I always really liked him. Well I guess I can really relate to him having very bad social anxiety and being completely socially innept myself.

My boyfriend and I have very different opinions on Barclay. I suppose I have more experience with/am sympathetic to mental illness and anxiety than he is, which is probably why.
 
Reg isn't ill.

He's just a nerd.

That's who Berman thinks that we are.

He realized that his audience would never be an Alphaman like Riker, so he built Barclay in our image, to keep us related and tuning in every week.
 
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He realized that his audience would never be an Alphaman like Riker, so he built Barclay in our image, to keep us related and tuning in every week.
I have to say that when Reg. made the character based on Riker shorter and with a slightly higher pitched voice, it was a favorite moment.
 
Barclay's good at his specialty, but he has no business even being a STARFLEET officer. How he got in, who knows? He either humped somebody, or he's got political connections. Both of which are highly unlikely, which makes his position onboard Enterprise completely implausible -- so why's he there?

As an "inside" joke and as a wink at the audience, because the staff resents having to write for Larger than Life Heroes, because it involves actual work for them. They can't just go on autopilot, because of the "rules" Gene Roddenberry set up, regarding how these characters interact. Well, then, get the hell off STAR TREK, and go make Reality TV shows.

Stop trying to screw with MY show!!! But that's as much a fantasy as STAR TREK, itself, is. "They" held the pink receipt to TNG and they just LOVED reminding us of that, sometimes. Like when Barclay came to town with his ... his lame-ass highjinx and in need of a good, old fashioned punch in mouth, to wake him the hell up and cut the mental instability crap ...
 
According to Reg's origin episode, all his previous captain's lied about him being awesome, so that they could promote or/and transfer him to another ship where he is someone else's problem.
 
I've railed on and on about my dislike of Lt. Barclay, since Time Immemorial ... and not one convert, to show for my efforts. He continues to be a Fan Favourite. I'll never understand that, but it's my feeling that it's kind of the same thing at play, as why Thomas Kinkade's kitch paintings sold the way they did: The Public has no frigging taste ...
 
Dude.

The 80s tv show.

Dwight was the original Howling Mad Murdock.

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I got the brotherly/sisterly feeling from Harry and B'Elanna from the start, but I didn't see the potential from Tom either. Until they started to nudge at it around season 3, then I became obsessed because I'm a sucker for "i hated you but then you weren't bad but then we got along and whoops" tropes :klingon:

On that note about Harry's girlfriend in the books, is anyone else up to date? Because the most recent development with them got me a little like ...... Kirsten wyd.


My boyfriend and I have very different opinions on Barclay. I suppose I have more experience with/am sympathetic to mental illness and anxiety than he is, which is probably why.
I'm up to date on the books....can't say I like the current development, but I don't hate it. I just want to see Harry settle down with someone finally LOL
 
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