Black Vulcan

[Sci]

Spock was supposed to be green tinged. Bones said this more than once.

Moving the goalposts. Being tinged green doesn't make you green; highlights are not the main color. Spock clearly has the same mostly-pinkish skin color that Humans of European descent have.

So you are being inconsistent: It bothers you that darker-skinned Vulcans are not dark green, but it does not bother you that lighter-skinned Vulcans are not light green.

Gosh. What could possibly motivate you to have a different reaction to the idea of a white Vulcan than you do to the idea of a black Vulcan?

 

[jmidnight_99]

Moving the goalposts. Being tinged green doesn't make you green; highlights are not the main color. Spock clearly has the same mostly-pinkish skin color that Humans of European descent have.

So you are being inconsistent: It bothers you that darker-skinned Vulcans are not dark green, but it does not bother you that lighter-skinned Vulcans are not light green.

Gosh. What could possibly motivate you to have a different reaction to the idea of a white Vulcan than you do to the idea of a black Vulcan?

I don't. he was supposed to be green tinged. The Andorians were blue. Do you think there were brown ones too? No there were ALBINO and PALE BLUE ones though. Romulans are the second Vulcan race or ethnic group if race is too strong.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Moving the goalposts. Being tinged green doesn't make you green; highlights are not the main color. Spock clearly has the same mostly-pinkish skin color that Humans of European descent have.

So you are being inconsistent: It bothers you that darker-skinned Vulcans are not dark green, but it does not bother you that lighter-skinned Vulcans are not light green.

Gosh. What could possibly motivate you to have a different reaction to the idea of a white Vulcan than you do to the idea of a black Vulcan?

And for the record, green tinged does make you green. Pale light green can be described as "green tinged". The"goalposts" aren't moving, You're flailing around as your understanding of the issue changes,

 

[jmidnight_99]

Copper toxicity can cause a brown rash.

Anemia makes people look pasty.

And mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy. What's your point?

 

[jmidnight_99]

As a whole, most other planets in Star Trek are very unrealistic and mostly there for props for human centered storylines. Basically no other planets have different languages or cultures as a planet rightfully should have, neither have there ever really been other races involved other then for the purpose of the network to show a diverse cast.

They have universal translators. Did you see Enterprise? Before they had the translators? Or DS9 when the translators went offline or when Quark crashed in 1950's Earth? And what on Earth do you mean that the aliens don't have different cultures? Do you watch the show?

 

[Guy Gardener]

And mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy. What's your point?

That the copper blood they all hold, should mean that they all have gold brown skin, which has nothing to do with melanin or their environment.

 

[jmidnight_99]

That the copper blood they all hold, should mean that they all have gold brown skin, which has nothing to do with melanin or their environment.

Copper doesn't turn golden brown when it oxidizes, it turns green to bluish green or dark green. http://www.minerals.net/image/3/50/copper.aspx

Iron turns red to dark red or brown when it oxidizes fphoto.photoshelter.com/image/I000009GEMNMhMs4

BTW, do you know what a non-sequitur is?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Copper toxicity causes gold brown rings to appear where people sweat.

Armpits, between the legs, other places.

It's a just a weird symptom to a disease.

Increase those symptoms by 40 thousand percent, and you have nothing but Black Vulcans.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Just for a random useless memory, in my old TOS roleplaying days I remember someone did a character who was a green skinned Vulcan, with the idea being that it was a parallel to Native Americans and they were a minority group who had been decimated by mainstream Vulcan culture long ago and existed outside the Vulcan logic dogma mainstream. I always found that a fascinating idea.

 

[Sci]

And for the record, green tinged does make you green.

Oh, bullshit. Leonard Nimoy was not green on TOS, neither was Mark Lenard, and neither was Jolene Blalock on ENT, and neither was any other white actor playing a Vulcan ever green.

You're just pissed that there are black Vulcans because you don't like the idea of whiteness not being the default setting for the universe.

 

[Idran]

I don't. he was supposed to be green tinged. The Andorians were blue. Do you think there were brown ones too? No there were ALBINO and PALE BLUE ones though. Romulans are the second Vulcan race or ethnic group if race is too strong.

I think you forgot to respond to me about tyrosine in all that mess.

Also, in fact neither you nor Guy are right about real-life copper based blood, because we have animals with copper-based blood on Earth; there are invertebrates with hemocyanin here on Earth, a heme molecule that is in fact based on copper, not iron, and their blood is blue. And not greenish-blue even, but very specifically blue, as you can see here and here. Vulcans in Star Trek having copper-based blood was due to the same misunderstanding of biochemistry as that. (Guy's closer, but copper toxicity leaving brown rashes has nothing to do with blood. The copper buildup that causes copper toxicity doesn't bind with hemoglobin, it's free in the blood stream. I believe the rashes are because of free copper migrating into the skin, similar to argyria with silver; you're literally seeing the inorganic copper deposits themselves.)

You're right that copper oxide is green and iron oxide is red, jmidnight, but neither of those has anything to do with heme molecules, because those are far more complicated than just oxidizing metal ions. There is no iron oxide in your blood except what might be absorbed dietarily. It's essentially nothing more than a coincidence that iron oxide and hemoglobin are both red, and the fact that the color of blood isn't actually anywhere near the actual color of rust should be suggestive of that. Plus the fact that blood is red whether or not it's oxidized.

If anything, green blood should probably involve sulfur in some way, not copper, given sulfhemoglobinemia. Though that might also be overly reliant on the traits of our specific blood.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Oh, bullshit. Leonard Nimoy was not green on TOS, neither was Mark Lenard, and neither was Jolene Blalock on ENT, and neither was any other white actor playing a Vulcan ever green.

You're just pissed that there are black Vulcans because you don't like the idea of whiteness not being the default setting for the universe.

Don't use that language with me. Spock was green tinged, and there are no black Vulcans. Here's an article from the Star Trek property master and makeup guy. Originally Spock was supposed to be red (which would have made no sense at all). Ultimately, he was green tinged.

https://nl-nl.facebook.com/notes/st...ake-up-ln-1/10150217543770934/?_fb_noscript=1

Additionally, I'm not "pissed" because there are "black Vulcans". I'm pissed because there shouldn't be "black Vulcans" because it makes no logical sense. Except as I knew all along. to add some brainwashed, brain-dead leftie PC politics into the discussion. There are black Vulcans because the world "will be a better place" if there is. How well that's all worked out over the years.

And please explain to me how my assertion that Mr. Spock's is green tinged, and that darker skinned Vulcans would most likely be darker green, has anything to do "whiteness" being a default universe? How does that work?

And mods, before you get on my case, I'm not the one who started with the foul language, politics and accusations. (Well, I did start with the politics a while ago, but I knew what was really going on all along)

There are no black Vulcans. There are plenty of green tinged ones, though.

 

[jmidnight_99]

I think you forgot to respond to me about tyrosine in all that mess.

Also, in fact neither you nor Guy are right about real-life copper based blood, because we have animals with copper-based blood on Earth; there are invertebrates with hemocyanin here on Earth, a heme molecule that is in fact based on copper, not iron, and their blood is blue. And not greenish-blue even, but very specifically blue, as you can see here and here. Vulcans in Star Trek having copper-based blood was due to the same misunderstanding of biochemistry as that. (Guy's closer, but copper toxicity leaving brown rashes has nothing to do with blood. The copper buildup that causes copper toxicity doesn't bind with hemoglobin, it's free in the blood stream. I believe the rashes are because of free copper migrating into the skin, similar to argyria with silver; you're literally seeing the inorganic copper deposits themselves.)

You're right that copper oxide is green and iron oxide is red, jmidnight, but neither of those has anything to do with heme molecules, because those are far more complicated than just oxidizing metal ions. There is no iron oxide in your blood except what might be absorbed dietarily. It's essentially nothing more than a coincidence that iron oxide and hemoglobin are both red, and the fact that the color of blood isn't actually anywhere near the actual color of rust should be suggestive of that. Plus the fact that blood is red whether or not it's oxidized.

If anything, green blood should probably involve sulfur in some way, not copper, given sulfhemoglobinemia. Though that might also be overly reliant on the traits of our specific blood.

The mess was mind numbing. I originally started off by saying that it's unlikely that there would even BE darker skinned Vulcans. Because this fictitious planet's got red a sun, an entirely different atmosphere, so who knows how much UV radiation hits the surface, if any? It's not the same as Earth.

You're correct in your explanation of the green-blue-red colors and blood makeup. (They said the Andorians had blue blood)

But none of this is really isn't the point is it? Spock was light green, due to his skin pigmentation, and therefore darker Vulcans most likely would be darker green, not brown.

Tuvok should have been dark green.

 

[Idran]

But none of this is really isn't the point is it? Spock was light green, due to his skin pigmentation, and therefore darker Vulcans most likely would be darker green, not brown.

Oh no I'm not supporting your side, just to make that clear. I meant my earlier post that you were wrong about the way that tyrosine was created in the body, that it's completely unrelated to either hemoglobin or an iron-based blood chemistry in any general sense.

If anything, Spock had more of a jaundiced appearance to me in TOS. I don't look at him and think "green" at all.

 

[gamer1]

They have universal translators. Did you see Enterprise? Before they had the translators? Or DS9 when the translators went offline or when Quark crashed in 1950's Earth? And what on Earth do you mean that the aliens don't have different cultures? Do you watch the show?

Is my english really that bad that you missunderstood the whole context of my post?

I am not saying that the aliens don't have different culture from Humans. I am saying that Klingons for example only seem to have ONE culture, and ONE language, and ONE appearance, whereas a realistic planet would have several cultures, several languages etc.

Now granted that there'd might exist ONE planet or even TWO with a monocultural and monoracial people (maybe they killed and conquered all minorities). But in Star Trek there's basicaly only monocultural/lingual planets, and they just throw in a "black" vulcan for the sake of having to have a black vulcan.

 

[Nyotarules]

If dark Vulcans should be dark green why aren't dark humans dark red...mmmm????

 

[Michael]

I wish this thread would just go away. Seeing it pup up on the front page of the board always makes me nauseous. What a weird thing to discuss.

 

[Nyotarules]

I wish this thread would just go away. Seeing it pup up on the front page of the board always makes me nauseous. What a weird thing to discuss.

You could try ignoring the thread.

 

[E-DUB]

It would have been amusing if they had varied the tints of Andorians or Orions from pale blue (or green) to deep shades of the color.

 

[Sophie74656]

random fact...vulcans were originally supposed to be red, but the higher ups decided it made spock look like the devil