I think fans and writers have more than we think too, especially if such people had affiliations around the time that the show was actually on the air. Since I follow sound effects, I knew there was more than the original CD and this was proven with the few additional sound effects that appeared on the LaLa release. I suspect that Doug Grindstaff probably retained some of his uniquely created sound effects and never released them, IMHO of course, but possible.
Roddenberry Vault Question
- Thread starter Methuselah Flint
- Start date
I still don't get what the "newly restored mono sound mix" is all about. Other than The Corbomite Maneuver having the correct opening credits, I notice no differences at all. The same overly loud engine rumble on certain episodes of the first season and actually having ANY engine rumble in the second.
On the plus side, I appreciate the "play all" feature. all of the blu-rays should have had that. I also find it oddly satisfying that when you Play All, it defaults to the original effects/mono mix. I would have expected it to go to the TOS-R versions. Since I rarely watch those, yay for me. However, Arena has one TOS-R effect in the "original" version. The episode title, with the overhead shot of the outpost is the TOS-R version with the smoking crater and the distance landscape. However, just as the teaser ends, it's the original with no crater and including dangling beam. Sigh...
I would have preferred a documentary and then a separate section for deleted scenes organized by episode. Or, better still, seamless branching to work in cleaned up scenes. Also, some of the found model master shots look amazing! When put on a starfield, it shows just how fantastic this series would look if they were able to do that for all of them. Totally blows away the TOS-R work.
A mixed bag.
On the plus side, I appreciate the "play all" feature. all of the blu-rays should have had that. I also find it oddly satisfying that when you Play All, it defaults to the original effects/mono mix. I would have expected it to go to the TOS-R versions. Since I rarely watch those, yay for me. However, Arena has one TOS-R effect in the "original" version. The episode title, with the overhead shot of the outpost is the TOS-R version with the smoking crater and the distance landscape. However, just as the teaser ends, it's the original with no crater and including dangling beam. Sigh...
I would have preferred a documentary and then a separate section for deleted scenes organized by episode. Or, better still, seamless branching to work in cleaned up scenes. Also, some of the found model master shots look amazing! When put on a starfield, it shows just how fantastic this series would look if they were able to do that for all of them. Totally blows away the TOS-R work.
A mixed bag.
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Just watching "City on the Edge of Forever" with the commentary on. Good lord, the nerd pride is off the charts. Scott Mantz, Mark Altman and Roger Lay, Jr. Honestly, if you're going to tout yourselves as the "Mount Rushmore Of Treksperts," don't get a piece of trivia wrong less than 5 minutes later, crediting Michael Barrier as playing a security guard alongside David L. Ross. Barrier was DeSalle in a few episodes...not in this one.
Not the best commentary ever, a lot of talking over each other. Some decent trivia, but I get the impression a lot of it came from the Cushman books.
Not the best commentary ever, a lot of talking over each other. Some decent trivia, but I get the impression a lot of it came from the Cushman books.
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Plus some stuff has probably been trashed over the years from different labs closing. Just look at "The Cage". Had that one person jnot found the color footage from "The Cage", we'd still be stuck with the version that used the workprint and "Menagerie" scenes.
This is exactly what I fear, and why I've been avoiding it...Dare I say, 'self-indulgent', and 'we are special and select enough to have everyone listen to *us* on *our* views on the episode'?
Yeah, I caught the "Michael Barrier" mistake too.
Someone on IMDB added that Barrier appeared in this episode as a guard years ago and now so called experts on picking up on it. LOL.
That extra does not look much like Barrier anyway.
Memory Alpha claims the Grant (Kelowitz) Woods appears in "City.." as well. Like where? -- since they spend just the teaser and a tiny bit of act I on the ship.
I really wish people would stop claiming to see actors in episodes unless they are certain and can actually say, "There he is at 4:23 of the episode standing on the left."
Actors who usually have speaking parts don't come into play non-speaking extras. When you see an actor like John Winston credited in Space Seed you can be sure his lines were cut -- not that they payed him actors salary to play an extra. Same with Rand in "Conscience.." her lines were cut in editing -- they didn't bring her in as a non-speaking extra.
Someone on IMDB added that Barrier appeared in this episode as a guard years ago and now so called experts on picking up on it. LOL.
That extra does not look much like Barrier anyway.
Memory Alpha claims the Grant (Kelowitz) Woods appears in "City.." as well. Like where? -- since they spend just the teaser and a tiny bit of act I on the ship.
I really wish people would stop claiming to see actors in episodes unless they are certain and can actually say, "There he is at 4:23 of the episode standing on the left."
Actors who usually have speaking parts don't come into play non-speaking extras. When you see an actor like John Winston credited in Space Seed you can be sure his lines were cut -- not that they payed him actors salary to play an extra. Same with Rand in "Conscience.." her lines were cut in editing -- they didn't bring her in as a non-speaking extra.
I just listened to this commentary.
To be honest... there are enough humdingers to warrant a fact check.
Woods isn't on the episode's cast sheet. I doubt he's in it.
As for the Barrier thing, it is startling and depressing how quickly non-facts like that can spread online (and consequently, offline). Luckily we're just talking Star Trek trivia here, but unfortunately this kind of thing isn't isolated to trivia.
This is the one thing that's irking me about these releases. They have the usual taking heads, celebrity fans, providing commentary on an episode. I'd rather have Harlan Ellison do a commentary on City.
The closest to a Ellison commentary track we'll get is the Sci-Fi Special Edition extras from back in the 1990s:
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What people need to do first off is stop looking in the background for regular actors just loitering in the shadows.
Actors get paid more than extras. They weren't paying a premium to real actors to stand and say nothing.
For years books listed John Winston as a "bartender" in "Wolf.."-- despite the fact he was playing his recurring Kyle role in the same episode. That's just stupid.
If it sounds that stupid -- it probably ain't true. At that point how about actually doing research?
You go to every TOS listing in IMDB and under "uncredited" they always a bunch of names of actors who don't appear at all or are simply extras. Extras are not actors and they weren't credited for a reason.
It justs adds confusion when trying to find actors who actually spoke lines and for whatever reason weren't credited -- like Paul Prokop who played the "phaser room guard" in "Mirror."
Actors get paid more than extras. They weren't paying a premium to real actors to stand and say nothing.
For years books listed John Winston as a "bartender" in "Wolf.."-- despite the fact he was playing his recurring Kyle role in the same episode. That's just stupid.
If it sounds that stupid -- it probably ain't true. At that point how about actually doing research?
You go to every TOS listing in IMDB and under "uncredited" they always a bunch of names of actors who don't appear at all or are simply extras. Extras are not actors and they weren't credited for a reason.
It justs adds confusion when trying to find actors who actually spoke lines and for whatever reason weren't credited -- like Paul Prokop who played the "phaser room guard" in "Mirror."
Ellison may be unable to do a commentary at this point; he suffered a stroke in 2014 (though he's still writing). Honestly, though, I'm happy with the book he wrote about the episode; I doubt a commentary would add much to the subject.
That said, I agree with the sentiment -- I'm not crazy about the "celebrity fan" commentaries. I'd rather hear from someone who worked on the show, or a historian speaking from prepared remarks.
Make two TOS-R effects in the 'original' Arena, as the Gorn gives a mighty blink when he's first shown...
I didn't watch that far. Ugh. Good catch
Anyone from the production or a historian would certainly be better. "Celebrity fan" commentaries add nothing to the episode.
What I hate about errors like that is that a simple viewing of the episode will show how incorrect it is. This is the series that people have been watching repeatedly for 50 years. Why mistakes as simple as this continue to be spread is beyond me.
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I had to laugh when the one alleged "superfan" brought up Have Gun, Will Travel, which Roddenberry wrote about 10% of the episodes, and seemed to credit him with the supposedly unusual-for-its-time positive portrayal of Indians in that series, further suggesting that it was prescient of Star Trek's celebration of diversity.
Then again Shatner's mention of Kirk's supposed tendency to speak in iambic pentameter being something that came from his Shakepearean training, but forgetting how many "beats" that meant (hint: PENTameter) was good for a laugh as well. I know, he's 85...and I'll take a forgetful or full-of-shit Shatner over a full-of-shit alleged superfan any day.
Then again Shatner's mention of Kirk's supposed tendency to speak in iambic pentameter being something that came from his Shakepearean training, but forgetting how many "beats" that meant (hint: PENTameter) was good for a laugh as well. I know, he's 85...and I'll take a forgetful or full-of-shit Shatner over a full-of-shit alleged superfan any day.
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Right! Exactly as they listed John Winston as both Kyle and "bartender" for "Wolf in the Fold"
Yeah, I get when those mistakes were first made there was no way for the writer to quickly stick in the DVD or Blu-ray to check -- but at this point those mistakes should be very rare.
Another from the Concordance from "Requiem for Methuselah" is John Bounomo as an "orderly" (presumably something to do with the illness aboard the Enterprise.)
But from watching the episode it's pretty clear that, as shot, the only shipboard scenes shot were the quick shots of Scott and Uhura on the bridge and Kirk, Spock and McCoy in Kirk's quarters at the end.
But good old John will forever be listed somewhere as a TOS actor for a scene that was never shot.
I am beginning to think that the only original shots in this release are the exterior ship shots. We now have 3 cases where live action changes are seen on these episodes. A good one to check is the sickbay monitor in Space Seed. Khan turns it off and it goes black in the re-mastered -- in the original, the graphic stays on screen except with the light off.
It may be that the person(s) who did this set were unaware of live action shots being altered and presumed only exterior ship shots had been changed. I loaned my set to a friend and I can't check for other cases of wrong effects right now.
It may be that the person(s) who did this set were unaware of live action shots being altered and presumed only exterior ship shots had been changed. I loaned my set to a friend and I can't check for other cases of wrong effects right now.
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