The best setting for a Star Trek game in your opinion

[Ghost]

Hello all,

This is a bit of a question with many interpretation, hopefully my own example later on gives people an idea what I exactly mean.
But what do gamers here think would be the best setting for a Star Trek, now I am not just talking Prime Timeline versus Kelvin Timeline but more also which era; one of the existing ones of a complete new period.
I feel that the timeline/era choice will determine how well a future Star Trek title would be received by Star Trek gamers and gamers in general.

I myself am a big First Person Shooter fan (though I like traditional adventure games, space sim, and the occasional strategy game as well), and I was really on board when Elite Force 1 and 2, and Deep Space Nine the Fallen were first released. (I also played Honor Guard but this really was Unreal redressed as Star Trek, and Star Trek Generation which suffered from control issues and the lack of saving during a mission).

Both titles had the fortunate of being released during the time that both Star Trek shows were still on the air, though I think DSN had just completed its run when The Fallen had come out.
When Elite Force 2 came out there were still TNG games.

Elite Force appealed even to non Star Trek fans, I am not sure if The Fallen appealed much outside the Star Trek gamer target group, especially as it was a lot more grounded in that show. (how many people recognize Cardassians or the forces of the Dominion?)

Though I am not a big fan of Enterprise myself the setting of the show could also have been used for a FPS game, the classic races and new comers such as the Suliban and the Xindi (even the Borg if you stretched the setting based on "Regeneration")
A Half Life 2 mod based on Enterprise called Temporal Cold War was actually in development for quite a while before it got canceled, and after it came MACO for Crysis 2 (I actually bought Crysis 2 in anticipation for this mod) before that one got canceled as well.

Well the new Star Trek movies also got their own game (along side a number of smaller mobile games), but the quality of that game blew any chances in it launching a new Star Trek gaming market, though I guess the new VR game 'might' help recover that.

But what is the best choice now for settings regarding a Star Trek game?
A 'birth of the Federation' style strategy game would not really much difficulty with that, just incorporate all the eras, each with their own aesthetics, but what about FPS, Adventure, and Strategy.
Fourteen years ago I would have said the TNG/DSN/VGR era as that was still the most well known setting by the general public and it offered a lot of content such as characters and species to make games with. But outside Star Trek Online that setting has barely been used any more in the years after. How many in general still remember DSN and VGR?

The new movie setting? Not sure of the majority of people who watches the movies would actually play the game, especially after the disaster that was the Star Trek game, and the general bad reputation licensed games have.
Even its content is a bit vague, outside the movies there are only the comics and they are all non canon.

Perhaps to work as a single player franchise again the series might have to return to the setting of the original series as that is the one that still has the biggest public awareness, if even just for the tropes and Star Trek-isms that permeates on the web.
Of course the problem with that one is that several of the actors of that setting can no longer be called up to do voice work unless computer designers come up with a really accurate voice simulation program.

Well there is the Star Trek Discovery setting to I guess but the show must first actually air and we still don't know what its reception is before things such as a video game could be considered being based on it. (I find it ridiculous that already comics and books are planned)

Something post-Nemesis that has its own setting? Then you have a lot of unknowns in an unestablished setting that will probably not draw in many gamers.

What do people here think would be the best future direction for Star Trek gaming ?

 

[nightwind1]

When I gamemaster Trek as a tabletop RPG, I like to set it right around year four or five of the Enterprise's five year mission, but on a different ship (usually a TOS-era version of a Miranda-class).

 

[Ghost]

But in general you prefer to stick around the Original Series period for your campaigns.
Is there perhaps a reason why you do not use the TNG/DSN/VGR setting? (players not familiar with its elements?)

 

[Owain Taggart]

I think the thing about the games is that they're a bit too tied down to canon, which is both a blessing and a curse. My idea for a Trek game would be for it to focus on an all-new crew, and for it to be a 25th Anniversary style adventure game, perhaps set post-nemesis. But the game needs to be able to do and be its own thing and just be able to forge ahead while telling its story in the universe, which could in turn, if successful, become a game franchise of its own.

 

[Ghost]

I also think an original crew and setting may work the best this day and age (I already mentioned classic Star Trek but several of the actors have passed on, TNG might also work but I think the movies might have left a bad aftertaste) as it offers freedom for the designers.
The difficulty is still on how to entice the Trek fans and especially the non Trek gamers. Trek still has quite a nerdy reputation to gamers who much more prefer games like Halo, Gears of War, GTA, Assassin's Creed.

Now I am not saying that those should be made interested in Trek games, IMO a lot of the mess the gaming industry has found itself in is focusing way to much on that particular type of gamers, but you still would like to draw in people who like action-adventure or adventure type games.

Unfortunate when you make a Trek game it is still expected to be based on one of the Trek incarnations, doing for example a Trek game in the 29th century would raise some eyebrows on if this can make back the money spend on development.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Don't forget that the 25th Anniversary game did have ship battles. If they could incorporate some Bridge Commander type of combat along with the adventuring, then I think it'd be fine. Adventuring could perhaps be done a bit like Mass Effect, adding a bit of rpg elements into the game without them feeling entirely out of place.

A completely new crew does have drawbacks as pointed out, but if we're relying on a game being based on previous incarnations, then it's bound to be a non-starter as we'd just keep waiting for something new to happen. A new crew would give it more freedom and I believe more resources, and maybe even easier to market, and if successful could even end up boosting the franchise overall.

 

[Ghost]

>Don't forget that the 25th Anniversary game did have ship battles...

I feel the same. 25th Anniversary and Judgment Rites are two of my favorite Star Trek games. The space simulation part which was probably inspired by the old Wing Commander games was okay for the time but I would rather see a Bridge Commander like combat engine in a Star Trek game that has space battles today.
Occasionally the battle engine in the old adventure games could be frustratingly difficult, only this year, almost twenty years after I played 25th Anniversary for the first time have I finally been able to win the final battle against the Enterprise duplicate and the Elasi ships, and I still have the feeling it was rather luck based.

>Adventuring could perhaps be done a bit like Mass Effect, adding a bit of rpg elements into the game without them feeling entirely out of place.

I am not the biggest Mass Effect fan (I liked ME2, but I felt that ME3 cut back on what its predecessor did right), but I would not mind seeing a developer give a Star Trek action-adventure game a somewhat similar treatment. (the player directly commanding one character and being able to order the other characters to scan targets, heal targets, perform special actions, or attack), and be able to switch character at the press of a key. But perhaps a little less combat oriented.

>then it's bound to be a non-starter

Sorry, I am not familiar with this description, could you explain it to me?

>A new crew would give it more freedom and I believe more resources, and maybe even easier to market, and if successful could even end up boosting the franchise overall.

At this point I think this might be the most viable option as for reasons I already mentioned. (outside fans probably only a handful of people remembering the TNG/DSN/VGR/ENT cast, the NuTrek crew not being that iconic).
The trick of course is on how to market this well to the customers. But despite that I don't care about ST Online myself the idea of player commanding their own unique crew does work.

I wish developers/publishers realized that there is still a viable market for Single Player Star Trek games.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The space simulation part which was probably inspired by the old Wing Commander games was okay for the time but I would rather see a Bridge Commander like combat engine in a Star Trek game that has space battles today.

Yeah, merely made that comparison because it really was the only thing to compare to that I could think of. Obviously everything would be modernized, and a Bridge Commander style ship combat would suit it best. I guess I'm surprised that throughout Trek's game history, there hasn't really been more of an effort to combine all of Trek's strengths. We've had Adventure games, we've had ship combat games, we've had FPSs, but none that have effectively combined them all. Anyone that could figure that out would have a winner.

<< I am not the biggest Mass Effect fan (I liked ME2, but I felt that ME3 cut back on what its predecessor did right), but I would not mind seeing a developer give a Star Trek action-adventure game a somewhat similar treatment. (the player directly commanding one character and being able to order the other characters to scan targets, heal targets, perform special actions, or attack), and be able to switch character at the press of a key. But perhaps a little less combat oriented.>>

There are some things that Mass Effect does really well, and it's the feeling of wonder throughout its adventuring, For away missions, I think the way Mass Effect has done it would be very suitable, though I'd hope for more than shooting and a bit more diplomacy and puzzles to solve.

<< Sorry, I am not familiar with this description, could you explain it to me?

Just mean that if we are waiting around for a developer to make one out of any of the previous movie or TV show eras, we'd be waiting for a very long time. Which is why I feel going with something new is the way to go.

At this point I think this might be the most viable option as for reasons I already mentioned. (outside fans probably only a handful of people remembering the TNG/DSN/VGR/ENT cast, the NuTrek crew not being that iconic).
The trick of course is on how to market this well to the customers. But despite that I don't care about ST Online myself the idea of player commanding their own unique crew does work.

Yes, you get my point exactly. I think a new crew is more and more important as the franchise ages. I actually think it could be easier to market. Just market it as Trek, with no need to have any knowledge of any previous.

I wish developers/publishers realized that there is still a viable market for Single Player Star Trek games.

Yes, same here. I think it will take awhile seeing as the last one didn't sell very well. Maybe they're waiting until the new series to reveal something.

 

[Ghost]

Hello Owain Taggart

I guess I'm surprised that throughout Trek's game history, there hasn't really been more of an effort to combine all of Trek's strengths. We've had Adventure games, we've had ship combat games, we've had FPSs, but none that have effectively combined them all. Anyone that could figure that out would have a winner.

Well it is somewhat of a design challenge of making a game that includes adventure gameplay (traditional adventure that is mouse driven), FPS elements such as in Elite Force, and Bridge Commander style space combat.
Adventure-Bridge Commander gameplay works. FPS-Bridge Commander gameplay also works. But Adventure-FPS-Bridge Commander? I am not saying that it is impossible but I can not immediately imagine it.
It would probably be more Adventure-Action meets Bridge Commander.

There are some things that Mass Effect does really well, and it's the feeling of wonder throughout its adventuring, For away missions, I think the way Mass Effect has done it would be very suitable, though I'd hope for more than shooting and a bit more diplomacy and puzzles to solve.

I get you and that is what I sort of meant earlier in my post. The Mass Effect games definitely got the various alien worlds and other settings really right and seeing something similar in a Star Trek game would be wonderful.
From exotic alien worlds to perhaps gas refineries floating in the atmosphere of gas giants, massive floating alien ruins in space, alien cities having from the ceilings of massive underground caves, giant metropolises bustling with activity, to the edge of the galaxy, or very close to the event horizon of a black hole.

Just mean that if we are waiting around for a developer to make one out of any of the previous movie or TV show eras, we'd be waiting for a very long time. Which is why I feel going with something new is the way to go.

I also think that a lot of interest in games with the old crews/characters has been declining over the years since the last Star Trek television show went of the air.
That is also perhaps a reason why many game developers and publishers are not as keen any more to pick up the franchise, barely any build in fans who immediately pick up a title with the old cast.

As you may know Activision dropped the Star Trek franchise back in the early 2000s because they felt that Enterprise and the new Nemesis movie were not invigorating the fan base, rather it made the number of watchers decline, thus also reducing a potential market group for Star Trek games.

A new good television show would really be needed to catch the audience interest and create a demand for more material such as video games.

Yes, you get my point exactly. I think a new crew is more and more important as the franchise ages. I actually think it could be easier to market. Just market it as Trek, with no need to have any knowledge of any previous.

I can not immediately confirm it but I do think a lot of potential new audience is indeed somewhat hesitant or intimidated to pick up a Star Trek game because they might think that they need to catch up with a lot of background lore in order to understand the setting, or at least recognize the main characters and species.

And as I mentioned in my other post, it has been a long time since Star Trek has been on television, and the audience would probably have had more connection with those characters and their world back when it was still in public awareness than a bunch of characters they have only seen in two or three movies (NuTrek)

A crew specifically designed for the games, perhaps in their own era and setting would perhaps be the best, it could draw in the old fans but also welcome a new audience without there being that much details that they would have to learn.
This information would all be provided to them by the main characters during the game or any equivalent of a library computer.
And a new setting would also allow for the introduction of new worlds and species, making the journey for old fans and newcomers the same, both are discovering and meeting all of these at the same time.

Yes, same here. I think it will take awhile seeing as the last one didn't sell very well. Maybe they're waiting until the new series to reveal something.

Probably, as mentioned before Star Trek gaming rather suffered because there was no show (or not a very good one) on television to attract an audience.
I am not sure if Discovery will garner a new audience interested in Star Trek games but that is a whole different subject.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Well it is somewhat of a design challenge of making a game that includes adventure gameplay (traditional adventure that is mouse driven), FPS elements such as in Elite Force, and Bridge Commander style space combat.
Adventure-Bridge Commander gameplay works. FPS-Bridge Commander gameplay also works. But Adventure-FPS-Bridge Commander? I am not saying that it is impossible but I can not immediately imagine it.
It would probably be more Adventure-Action meets Bridge Commander.

It sure is, but it doesn't mean it's impossible. Just look back at the 25th Anniversary game. It might not look like it, but that game combined at least two genres and managed to do so seamlessly. The traditional adventure style might not work in the context of today's gameplay world, which is why updating it with a Mass Effect-style of controlling your characters might be best. Then you don't need much of a transition. You can already do lots from that POV that you couldn't with some of the older games. Maybe swap out first-person with 3rd person and it becomes even easier because you don't have to design a whole new first-person mode. And from that mode, puzzles can be solved, whether they be on the ship or in an away team on the surface of a planet. Getting called to the bridge for a battle would be similar. I guess it could be a bit more action-adventure than pure adventure, but one does have to modernise the gameplay somewhat. There have been games already made that have already done most of those things, but they were just a bit too complex and hard to get into for most people and they weren't financially viable.

I get you and that is what I sort of meant earlier in my post. The Mass Effect games definitely got the various alien worlds and other settings really right and seeing something similar in a Star Trek game would be wonderful.
From exotic alien worlds to perhaps gas refineries floating in the atmosphere of gas giants, massive floating alien ruins in space, alien cities having from the ceilings of massive underground caves, giant metropolises bustling with activity, to the edge of the galaxy, or very close to the event horizon of a black hole.

Yeah, if they could get that kind of atmosphere done for a Trek game, we'd be in heaven. I'd like to see it be a bit randomized as well. Not to the extent of No Man's Sky, but it would be nice to see randomized worlds even while playing a linear story, giving you the feeling of exploration with storyline locations being randomized as well. Say for example, you land on a planet. The look of that planet may be different everytime you play, and the location of an NPC contact might be in a different location, with maybe an additional set of subquests within that planet.

I also think that a lot of interest in games with the old crews/characters has been declining over the years since the last Star Trek television show went of the air.
That is also perhaps a reason why many game developers and publishers are not as keen any more to pick up the franchise, barely any build in fans who immediately pick up a title with the old cast.

Yeah, I think we're in agreement there. Doing something completely new might give them a chance to revitalize the franchise as a whole and to me it's all the more reason to go with a new crew with no attachments to anything else. New fans can go in blind not knowing anything save some very basics.

As you may know Activision dropped the Star Trek franchise back in the early 2000s because they felt that Enterprise and the new Nemesis movie were not invigorating the fan base, rather it made the number of watchers decline, thus also reducing a potential market group for Star Trek games.

Very good point. I hadn't thought of that. Makes it all the more reason to distance themselves.

A new good television show would really be needed to catch the audience interest and create a demand for more material such as video games.

Yeah, and to be honest, I'm not totally convinced about Discovery. It's wait and see for now. With it only being available on CBS I think it will hurt its chances at a bigger market and more interest for a game.

I can not immediately confirm it but I do think a lot of potential new audience is indeed somewhat hesitant or intimidated to pick up a Star Trek game because they might think that they need to catch up with a lot of background lore in order to understand the setting, or at least recognize the main characters and species.

Yeah, you might be right.

And as I mentioned in my other post, it has been a long time since Star Trek has been on television, and the audience would probably have had more connection with those characters and their world back when it was still in public awareness than a bunch of characters they have only seen in two or three movies (NuTrek)

A crew specifically designed for the games, perhaps in their own era and setting would perhaps be the best, it could draw in the old fans but also welcome a new audience without there being that much details that they would have to learn.
This information would all be provided to them by the main characters during the game or any equivalent of a library computer.
And a new setting would also allow for the introduction of new worlds and species, making the journey for old fans and newcomers the same, both are discovering and meeting all of these at the same time.

Agreed. And giving necessary information via the main characters is a good way to do it without making it too much of a burden. And when it comes down to it, all they really need to know in terms of basics are some of the alien species and maybe a bit of the politics and personality that they'd possibly encounter along the way. Best way would also be for it to be explained as part of the story rather than an information dump. Walls of text can be a turnoff especially if they're not particularly interesting or well-written.

Probably, as mentioned before Star Trek gaming rather suffered because there was no show (or not a very good one) on television to attract an audience.
I am not sure if Discovery will garner a new audience interested in Star Trek games but that is a whole different subject.

Yeah, I'm starting to have my doubts too. Not with the way development is going anyway.

 

[Ghost]

Hey Owain Taggart

I guess we both agree that the most viable path for a new Star Trek single player game that is not set in the Kelvin-verse, would be a setting unconnected to any of the previous series other than perhaps in historical context (the journeys of Captain Kirk's crew, Picard's crew, Janeway and so on can be found in the library computer)

A jump like TNG did after the Original Series (about 80 years) would probably be the best start and from there have the developers make up a series of events that shaped up the universe to what it is "today".
It is tempting to transfer the setting to a complete new galaxy but I would not recommend it, it might come to much over as an imitation of Mass Effect Andromeda.
Technology wise it would have to be shown that this setting is much more advanced, not just renaming regular Starship systems but have them act like regular systems.

An example; the Tachyon Drive is not a better version of the Warp drive, it doesn't act in the same way a Warp drive does and has different travel time rates and limits (perhaps time isn't even relevant when you are traveling with it)

Or the Quantum Displacement Gate is not an improved transporter, it for example literally links two locations at the same time by tunneling through space/time.

Some tech may not undergo real fundamental changes other than efficiency and safety such as better working hand phasers, (really no reason to make these even more powerful), but in other cases there should so much evolution that if for example Montgomery Scott found himself in the setting that he would feel somewhat of a caveman when he would try to study an engine manual.

I would even recommend getting away from some of the other tropes as well such as the Klingon and Romulan ones.
Perhaps barely any familiar species and worlds should make an appearance.
You could have some on the crew of course but it would be rather wasting the setting and time jump when it would just go to the tried and familiar.

Yeah, if they could get that kind of atmosphere done for a Trek game, we'd be in heaven. I'd like to see it be a bit randomized as well. Not to the extent of No Man's Sky, but it would be nice to see randomized worlds even while playing a linear story, giving you the feeling of exploration with storyline locations being randomized as well. Say for example, you land on a planet. The look of that planet may be different everytime you play, and the location of an NPC contact might be in a different location, with maybe an additional set of subquests within that planet.

A few years ago I would have been in doubt if you had told me this, feeling that manual/hand written worlds would be much better. But procedural generation has come a long way and properly written algorithms should be able to make up random worlds now that feel unique rather than a Frankenstein-esque hodgepodge of existing parts.
But having these quests all fully voiced when they are randomly generated might still take some time.

But Star Trek games could really use more unique and exotic looking places that go beyond the standard formats of the "Desert Planet", "Jungle Planet", "Cavern Planet" etc.
That is something Star Trek could learn from Star Wars and Mass Effect (though I would advice that to be the limit of what inspiration it should take) as well as other science fiction media such as books.
Make Space weird and unusual again.

It would be nice if an actual game developer read these posts, but I am afraid we are going to be stuck with games that stick to the 23th and 24th century which I fear will drag in less and less potential Star Trek gamers in the future.
It is just so darn comfortable and safe.

I feel that Star Trek gaming may only to continue to decline from this point on outside the occasional fan made game and total conversion of another game.

Yeah, I'm starting to have my doubts too. Not with the way development is going anyway.

Discussions about the show are perhaps best reserved for the Discovery forum itself, but the long pre development period such as selecting actors for characters does not bode well.

Closer to this forum: I seriously question Discovery's potential for spin off media such as a video game.
A book and a comic series have already been announced but I feel those are cheaper to do than a video game unless it would be another one of those online or mobile games that barely have any animation, let alone cutscenes or that must moving graphics. (and how would that compete against the loads of other Trek games? I am not a STO fan but even that would still be much superior)

 

[retroenzo]

I'm not really one for MMORPGs but I think something along the lines of Star Trek Online but set earlier and on one of the hero ships (pick an Enterprise, or Voyager). Make it a single player campaign and have you exploring space and conducting missions on planets. Don't make it as combat heavy like in Star Trek Online but rely more on exploration and diplomacy.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I'm not really one for MMORPGs but I think something along the lines of Star Trek Online but set earlier and on one of the hero ships (pick an Enterprise, or Voyager). Make it a single player campaign and have you exploring space and conducting missions on planets. Don't make it as combat heavy like in Star Trek Online but rely more on exploration and diplomacy.

Totally agree. This is basically my answer too. Make it like, I don't know, Skyrim set on the Enterprise during the TOS era. Let me play as Kirk and Spock, and have control of an away team. Let me solve some problems with dialogue options rather than force. Give me a "talk the robot into self-destructing" dialogue option. And add some space battles or ground combat, but not the majority.

 

[retroenzo]

Totally agree. This is basically my answer too. Make it like, I don't know, Skyrim set on the Enterprise during the TOS era. Let me play as Kirk and Spock, and have control of an away team. Let me solve some problems with dialogue options rather than force. Give me a "talk the robot into self-destructing" dialogue option. And add some space battles or ground combat, but not the majority.

Or Fallout.

Or even something like Knights of the Old Republic. I played it briefly but while the Star Wars setting didn't do much for me, make it a Trek equivalent and I'm all in.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Hey Owain Taggart

I guess we both agree that the most viable path for a new Star Trek single player game that is not set in the Kelvin-verse, would be a setting unconnected to any of the previous series other than perhaps in historical context (the journeys of Captain Kirk's crew, Picard's crew, Janeway and so on can be found in the library computer)

Yes, very much so. Actually, I don't think it necessarily has to be set in the Prime, as long as it's a good game. The fault with the Kelvin-verse game was that it was pretty bad. If they could make something equally as good as some of the best Trek games from the past, then it doesn't really matter which timeline it's set. Just make it unconnected to everything else.

A jump like TNG did after the Original Series (about 80 years) would probably be the best start and from there have the developers make up a series of events that shaped up the universe to what it is "today".
It is tempting to transfer the setting to a complete new galaxy but I would not recommend it, it might come to much over as an imitation of Mass Effect Andromeda.
Technology wise it would have to be shown that this setting is much more advanced, not just renaming regular Starship systems but have them act like regular systems.

Yeah, you're right about the jump. There was resistance to it at first, but TNG showed that it could be done successfully, and by being persistent. In doing so, they created their own unique identity and in the end, we all tuned in to find out how familiar things had evolved. I don't see why it would be any different for a game to achieve this.

I also agree that it wouldn't need to be in a different galaxy. In some ways, people need something familiar to ground them and keep their interest. If anything, if they have to use a different galaxy, it would be better to use a neighbouring galaxy, like Andromeda.

An example; the Tachyon Drive is not a better version of the Warp drive, it doesn't act in the same way a Warp drive does and has different travel time rates and limits (perhaps time isn't even relevant when you are traveling with it)

That reminds me of the different scale used in both TOS and the movies, which could be explained as slightly more advanced technology. As for the tech in general, I liked the direction Nemesis was going in with the tech. It's a shame we didn't see more of it. It was familiar, but obviously more advanced.

Some tech may not undergo real fundamental changes other than efficiency and safety such as better working hand phasers, (really no reason to make these even more powerful), but in other cases there should so much evolution that if for example Montgomery Scott found himself in the setting that he would feel somewhat of a caveman when he would try to study an engine manual.

But didn't Scotty experience exactly that in Relics? But yes, agreed.

I would even recommend getting away from some of the other tropes as well such as the Klingon and Romulan ones.
Perhaps barely any familiar species and worlds should make an appearance.
You could have some on the crew of course but it would be rather wasting the setting and time jump when it would just go to the tried and familiar.

For the most part, yes. But I think this a difficult one. I think Voyager tried to be diverse due to being in a completely different part of space, and much of it was rather uninteresting. But maybe that's down to its execution.

A few years ago I would have been in doubt if you had told me this, feeling that manual/hand written worlds would be much better. But procedural generation has come a long way and properly written algorithms should be able to make up random worlds now that feel unique rather than a Frankenstein-esque hodgepodge of existing parts.
But having these quests all fully voiced when they are randomly generated might still take some time.

Yeah, it really has, hasn't it? I think there's still some ways to go, but I can see the potential. The way I see it, it could be a hybrid of designed world with randomization thrown in for good measure. Using Mass Effect again as an example, imagine if those worlds that we have missions on were randomized. They could look very different on each playthrough. But each of them would have its predesignated trigger points where something happens related to either the main story or sidequests. Maybe some random events too. But all this would help make the world feel more alive. I'm not asking for No Man's Sky type of randomization, mind you, as I don't really think that would fit in a Trek game, but randomization where context makes sense.

But Star Trek games could really use more unique and exotic looking places that go beyond the standard formats of the "Desert Planet", "Jungle Planet", "Cavern Planet" etc.
That is something Star Trek could learn from Star Wars and Mass Effect (though I would advice that to be the limit of what inspiration it should take) as well as other science fiction media such as books.
Make Space weird and unusual again.

And to be honest, I don't really think Trek has used those tropes you list very well. At least, I find it hard to come up with anything as nothing really stands out. But yeah, I think variety would help. I'd love to see something like what we saw in Avatar. What they did with the world design was brilliant.

It would be nice if an actual game developer read these posts, but I am afraid we are going to be stuck with games that stick to the 23th and 24th century which I fear will drag in less and less potential Star Trek gamers in the future.
It is just so darn comfortable and safe.

Yeah, I think you're right. We won't know for quite a while. If anything, I don't know if we'll see any Trek game in the near future. But it's always nice to hope

[quite]I feel that Star Trek gaming may only to continue to decline from this point on outside the occasional fan made game and total conversion of another game.[/quote]

And more difficult with each passing year seeing as some of these games won't be compatible anymore with newer systems. In general though, I agree that modders can be quite a creative bunch.

Discussions about the show are perhaps best reserved for the Discovery forum itself, but the long pre development period such as selecting actors for characters does not bode well.

Yeah, that does make me quite nervous. We still don't know much about it. We know more about its problems.

Closer to this forum: I seriously question Discovery's potential for spin off media such as a video game.
A book and a comic series have already been announced but I feel those are cheaper to do than a video game unless it would be another one of those online or mobile games that barely have any animation, let alone cutscenes or that must moving graphics. (and how would that compete against the loads of other Trek games? I am not a STO fan but even that would still be much superior)

I guess we won't really know until the series makes its run. For all we know, it could be really good and spark some interest in a game. But yeah, no mobile games, please! I've tried most of them and they just aren't very interesting.

 

[Ghost]

Hello Owain Taggart,

Yes, very much so. Actually, I don't think it necessarily has to be set in the Prime, as long as it's a good game. The fault with the Kelvin-verse game was that it was pretty bad. If they could make something equally as good as some of the best Trek games from the past, then it doesn't really matter which timeline it's set. Just make it unconnected to everything else.

I myself would still have preferred the Prime Timeline or another setting as there is just a lot about the Kelvin Timeline I just don't like. I followed the comics for a while despite not liking the movies but at some point I just go so sick of all the recycling of old content or re use of plot devices from Star Trek and other science fiction media that I just didn't want to waste money on them any more. (and they still have not been improving from what I glanced from the occasional issue, but this is not the literature forum)

A little confession of mine, I have also sometimes thought that Star Trek could have used a reboot, but not like what was done in the new movies. No back story involving time travel and such, or clearly mentioning that it is alternate universe/timeline. Just start from the beginning again.
One of my main reasons was that I wanted to get rid of a lot of the "human like alien" (not humanoid, just the ones that are just humans depicted as aliens in the original Star Trek, Vulcans, Tellarites, Andorians, Orions, Klingons, Romulans and such would stay) as well as all the Earth's the crew encountered (Miri's world, the one in the Omega Glory), and places like "Gangster World", "Roman World", "Nazi World". (episodes that were probably made to use old costumes and props from movies and other shows), instead on focusing on alien looking aliens and their worlds.
And at this point also to get rid of Enterprise in canon which I in general also feel hurts the Star Trek brand.

I would also have modified the history a bit, putting the Eugenics Wars and World War 3 further in the future, perhaps putting them near the turn of the 21th/22th century.

In doing so, they created their own unique identity and in the end, we all tuned in to find out how familiar things had evolved. I don't see why it would be any different for a game to achieve this.

I do have a feeling that the people of Viacom and Paramount would complain, most because of a conservative mindset stuck in the whole "nostalgia sells" idea. They would probably keep bring up that the 23th and 24th century are sure-selling concepts despite like you mentioned that the 24th century setting was also reluctantly accepted at first until it actually worked and attracted fans.

I think it is actually conservative company heads/departments that are the biggest obstacle for Star Trek to progress. When change is allowed they always look at what is currently hot and selling, but they are following the market rather than leading it.

(that might also be a reason why we are getting so many of these damn mobile ST games)

I liked the direction Nemesis was going in with the tech. It's a shame we didn't see more of it. It was familiar, but obviously more advanced.

Hmm, I don't recall, please elaborate.

But didn't Scotty experience exactly that in Relics? But yes, agreed.

It has been a while since I last saw that episode. But even then Scotty did recognize some of the basics even if the tech behind systems he knew had been improved.

For the most part, yes. But I think this a difficult one. I think Voyager tried to be diverse due to being in a completely different part of space, and much of it was rather uninteresting. But maybe that's down to its execution.

Well I do think Voyager had a few interesting species, it is just that they did not always get the needed development as the producers and the writers kept the ship moving onwards. And probably also way to much "filler species".
But the Klingons and the Romulans also did not started out as very deep and well developed antagonists either.

But yes it does depend on the execution. For new concepts to be developed further they must be given the room for it. As mentioned before, Voyager was on a journey back home, it did not really stuck that long around to encounter some species over and over again, giving writers room.
Well in the beginning perhaps, but the Kazon and the Viidians really weren't that interesting, and when the Borg became a recurring antagonist it led to their deconstruction as the Borg work at best at small doses, you don't want to expose them to much as that led to the so called "defanging".

I would honestly recommend not going for the safe and familiar types again, only so many Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian/Ferengi like species before people become to sick of them.

but randomization where context makes sense.

I would have to see it in action to see if it works, but if it could be done it would be very interesting and would offer a lot of of variety every time you play the game over again.

Yeah, I think you're right. We won't know for quite a while. If anything, I don't know if we'll see any Trek game in the near future. But it's always nice to hope

It is really quiet on the Star Trek gaming development front, apart from Star Trek Bridge Crew and Star Trek Armada 3, there has not been any new announcements of new Star Trek games or mods in development. Even Excalibur's development team has not done a major update on their site though in their forums it is clear that development is still continuing on.
No major developer or publisher wants to touch the Star Trek IP these days, even if Activision would get it again it would not be the same company as fifteen years ago that at least allowed titles like Elite Force 1&2, Armada, Away Team, and Bridge Commander to be developed.
And can you imagine Star Trek games by Electronic Arts?

No, in general for Star Trek gamers there is only a glorious past to look back to.

And more difficult with each passing year seeing as some of these games won't be compatible anymore with newer systems.

That is also a point of frustrating, and that a lot of these titles are stuck in a legal rights limbo because of the various publishers. GOG can't even release Activision or Microprose's entries, or the rest of Interplay's catalog. And getting Starfleet Command Gold Edition to run on Windows 8/10 is a near impossible task.

Yeah, that does make me quite nervous. We still don't know much about it. We know more about its problems.

Well there is more information now but I am not sure the series with reach its newly planned schedule, it has now been delayed for six months? In television and online streaming that can probably make quite a difference on how well a show is watched.

or all we know, it could be really good and spark some interest in a game.

Perhaps, but in this setting (23th Century) I much rather follow Kirk and Crew than some new cast.
I know Starfleet Academy and Starfleet Command worked, but neither title really tried to sell on the basis of their main characters. (Starfleet Command doesn't even have a player character, you are simply the captain of a starship)

But yeah, no mobile games, please! I've tried most of them and they just aren't very interesting.

As I mentioned before, I am really sick of this whole mobile/online focus, I want to play more deeper and involving games on my PC rather than those quick gameplay session games with barely any plot development and focus on micro transactions that are designed to clean out my wallet.

 

[gamer1]

I would think a game taking place during the dominion war would seriously be the best. Hopefully a Space Tactical Sim like Galactiv civilizations. But a RTS game in both space and on ground would probably work as well.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I myself would still have preferred the Prime Timeline or another setting as there is just a lot about the Kelvin Timeline I just don't like. I followed the comics for a while despite not liking the movies but at some point I just go so sick of all the recycling of old content or re use of plot devices from Star Trek and other science fiction media that I just didn't want to waste money on them any more. (and they still have not been improving from what I glanced from the occasional issue, but this is not the literature forum)

If there's one thing that really disappoints me about NuTrek in general is that so far it's just been full of retreads. They had an opportunity to do something very different by being a reboot by taking things in new directions and exploring different angles that they didn't have a chance to explore in TOS, tell new stories, but they're relying too much on the past as a crutch. Ironically getting away from it all was one of their reasons for wanting to do a reboot, but in their execution, they seem to be doing exactly the opposite by revisiting already familiar stories. They've wanted their cake... So, I understand your frustrations.

A little confession of mine, I have also sometimes thought that Star Trek could have used a reboot, but not like what was done in the new movies. No back story involving time travel and such, or clearly mentioning that it is alternate universe/timeline. Just start from the beginning again.
One of my main reasons was that I wanted to get rid of a lot of the "human like alien" (not humanoid, just the ones that are just humans depicted as aliens in the original Star Trek, Vulcans, Tellarites, Andorians, Orions, Klingons, Romulans and such would stay) as well as all the Earth's the crew encountered (Miri's world, the one in the Omega Glory), and places like "Gangster World", "Roman World", "Nazi World". (episodes that were probably made to use old costumes and props from movies and other shows), instead on focusing on alien looking aliens and their worlds.
And at this point also to get rid of Enterprise in canon which I in general also feel hurts the Star Trek brand.

Yeah, that would have been good. I don't know why they thought a different timeline would have been good, because looking back at it now, it just feels silly especially when they haven't really done anything different. Just revisiting what made Kirk tick wouldn't have needed time-travel. And you know what? I think the casting was good, and I wouldn't really have changed anything there, except maybe I'd have chosen a different actor playing Kirk.

I would also have modified the history a bit, putting the Eugenics Wars and World War 3 further in the future, perhaps putting them near the turn of the 21th/22th century.

Possibly a good idea. And if they have to use time-travel in any way, I'd for once like to see the crew from the past visit the future, perhaps to see how both of those have had an effect on the world. The Trek trope of time-travel always seems to be the future visiting the past, but personally if they have to do it, I'd find it more interesting the other way around and I think there could be a good storytelling opportunity there.

I do have a feeling that the people of Viacom and Paramount would complain, most because of a conservative mindset stuck in the whole "nostalgia sells" idea. They would probably keep bring up that the 23th and 24th century are sure-selling concepts despite like you mentioned that the 24th century setting was also reluctantly accepted at first until it actually worked and attracted fans.

And even then, it's not like the 23rd and 24th century would disappear and be put in a vacuum

I think it is actually conservative company heads/departments that are the biggest obstacle for Star Trek to progress. When change is allowed they always look at what is currently hot and selling, but they are following the market rather than leading it.

(that might also be a reason why we are getting so many of these damn mobile ST games)

True, and ever notice how most of those mobile games are based on TNG and not NuTrek?

Hmm, I don't recall, please elaborate.

Generations (On the Ent-D anyway), First Contact, and Insurrection all used the same tech level, which was the same that was used in the show. By Nemesis though, it was apparent that technology was improving. One of those examples is the padd which was much thinner in this movie, and I think the phasers may have been different as well. But the technology overall was much sleeker. I don't have any visuals on hand, but if you watch it, I think you'll see it too.

It has been a while since I last saw that episode. But even then Scotty did recognize some of the basics even if the tech behind systems he knew had been improved.

Eventually yes, but the episode did deal with him feeling like a fish out of water, a relic of the past, and there's a whole bit where he goes to the holodeck to be back on his own Enterprise bridge. On the whole he had to had to coordinate a lot with Geordi who helped bridge the gap. Many of his ideas didn't really seem to work anymore, and he was discouraged by that.

But yes it does depend on the execution. For new concepts to be developed further they must be given the room for it. As mentioned before, Voyager was on a journey back home, it did not really stuck that long around to encounter some species over and over again, giving writers room.
Well in the beginning perhaps, but the Kazon and the Viidians really weren't that interesting, and when the Borg became a recurring antagonist it led to their deconstruction as the Borg work at best at small doses, you don't want to expose them to much as that led to the so called "defanging".

Not to mention Species 8472, which I think was supposed to be their own unique Borg-type baddie, which is another one I ultimately found uninteresting. Like you say, I think many of them just weren't given time to really develop.

I would have to see it in action to see if it works, but if it could be done it would be very interesting and would offer a lot of of variety every time you play the game over again.

Well, good things come to those who wait, right? I think it's possible we might see something like this in the future, even if it's from a fangame or inspired by Star Trek.

There's one game out there right now that has a lot of what I've felt was very Trek-like in its nature. It has much of what I've talked about already. It's called Pulsar: The Lost Colony. It resembles Bridge Crew and Artemis Starship Simulator in the sense that it's a multiplayer game where everyone has bridge role, but where it differs is that you can actually move around the ship and go on away missions. Personally haven't played it, but I've watched some gameplay and it looks quite fun. This is kind of what I felt Star Trek Online should have been more like, like in the original plans for it, but I guess the technology wasn't quite there yet.

It is really quiet on the Star Trek gaming development front, apart from Star Trek Bridge Crew and Star Trek Armada 3, there has not been any new announcements of new Star Trek games or mods in development. Even Excalibur's development team has not done a major update on their site though in their forums it is clear that development is still continuing on.

Yeah, Bridge Crew I feel is the one with the most promise and I feel it could be an important one for Trek in general, but on the other hand, with it being a VR title, that limits the exposure due to the cost to entry being rather high for the general public.

Speaking of Excalibur, I thought they were working on a sequel to Bridge Commander. Did that get cancelled? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

And can you imagine Star Trek games by Electronic Arts?

Sadly, no, unless it's filled with war. Set in the Dominion War maybe? But as you say, the IP won't be touched these days, so one set in that war is even less likely

That is also a point of frustrating, and that a lot of these titles are stuck in a legal rights limbo because of the various publishers. GOG can't even release Activision or Microprose's entries, or the rest of Interplay's catalog. And getting Starfleet Command Gold Edition to run on Windows 8/10 is a near impossible task.

Yeah, GOG only has a partial list of titles. It seems the most we'll get is some Interplay titles for the time being. Limbo as you say. It isn't great for the consumer, although I'm guessing they don't think there's any interest for old games.

Well there is more information now but I am not sure the series with reach its newly planned schedule, it has now been delayed for six months? In television and online streaming that can probably make quite a difference on how well a show is watched.

Doesn't fill me with a good feeling, that's for sure.

Perhaps, but in this setting (23th Century) I much rather follow Kirk and Crew than some new cast.
I know Starfleet Academy and Starfleet Command worked, but neither title really tried to sell on the basis of their main characters. (Starfleet Command doesn't even have a player character, you are simply the captain of a starship)

Good points. Well, maybe a modern game could be made that makes less of a distinction as to who you are and just let you choose which species you want to be via a character creator that give you species traits that would be applied in certain situations. This could be done in any era.

As I mentioned before, I am really sick of this whole mobile/online focus, I want to play more deeper and involving games on my PC rather than those quick gameplay session games with barely any plot development and focus on micro transactions that are designed to clean out my wallet.

It's not even the environment that's the problem. They could make a great 4X game similar to Birth of the Federation for mobile devices which would really suit touchscreens, but for the most part they don't seem interested in that. Possibly because it's easier to just make something that make them money using microtransactions. I could also see Starfleet Battles being a good format for a mobile game, as there are many board popular board games that have made the transition. Personally, I'd love to get into those types of games, but I can't because I simply don't have the space needed for such a game, and making a mobile version would be ideal. And I'm possibly not the only one.

Hey, I realize we've gone back and forth a lot, but if you want to continue, maybe we should do it via PM?