Star Trek Wrath of Khan backlash?

[Thomas Elliot]

I'll be the hipster that thinks TMP was awesome.
The Wrath of Khan is fun for some reasons:
-Saavik
-Way better uniforms
-some action
-the connection to the original series with this villain from way back coming for revenge
-the Kobayashi Maru test
-the...

No... TWOK is still better. I really enjoyed the addition of Kirk being the first person to "beat" the Kobayashi Maru test, and his interactions with Saavik, and everyone else.

But TMP is really fun for the exploration aspect. I know audience at the time didn't think so, but I think the huge budget was well worth it.

 

[Vger23]

WOK is great movie, but my fav. movie with the original cast is The Undiscovered Country (itself a title Meyer preferred for WOK). TUC was a great, heavy-handed allegory to the events of the day that was in the finest tradition of the original series.

To each their own. I like TUC, but find it to be immensely flawed, ponderous, and cheap at times. Nowhere near the quality and drama of TWOK.

 

[BillJ]

Hi Guys,

As far as I'm aware, 'The Wrath of Khan' is an acknowledge Trek classic and considered by most to be the finest film in the series but is there anyone who believes it to be overrated? A contingent of Hipster Trekkies who have launched a backlash against Khan and instead champion 'The Search for Spock' maybe? ha ha

I'd be interested to know.

I've always preferred The Motion Picture and The Search for Spock over TWOK.

 

[dmac]

I've always preferred The Motion Picture and The Search for Spock over TWOK.

But the Wrath of Khan had Wrath in it.... lol
Actually I have a difficult time putting one of the movies above the other.

 

[BillJ]

But the Wrath of Khan had Wrath in it.... lol
Actually I have a difficult time putting one of the movies above the other.

Shatner and Montalban are magnificent in it. Spock's death scene is cool. The rest of it? It is pretty flat with a script full of plot holes.

But it is a fun movie to watch. Which is how we should grade these things. I just had more fun with some other Trek films.

 

[dmac]

At the time I wasn't to thrilled with The Voyage Home but Trek movies tend to grow on a person over time.

 

[Vger23]

At the time I wasn't to thrilled with The Voyage Home but Trek movies tend to grow on a person over time.

I haven't, in the history of the franchise, been as unexcited for an upcoming Trek movie as I was for Star Trek IV back when it was released. I was even more excited about Insurrection.

 

[dmac]

Plus it's Ricardo Montalban's 96th birthday today.

 

[fireproof78]

I think TWOK is a well made, well crafted film that deserves a lot of accolades for how it was put together. The Mutara Nebulae chase is an excellent, tense sequence, that (aside from stretches in logic) still is great to this day.

However, Khan never interested me as a villain, despite Montalban's fantastic performance. The body horror, though brief, is still enough to make me squeamish to this day, and reduces my enjoyment of the film.

TWOK is a good film, top 5 for me, but I don't revisit it often.

 

[dmac]

I think TWOK is a well made, well crafted film that deserves a lot of accolades for how it was put together. The Mutara Nebulae chase is an excellent, tense sequence, that (aside from stretches in logic) that still is great to this day.

However, Khan never interested me as a villain, despite Montalban's fantastic performance. The body horror, though brief, is still enough to make me squeamish to this day, and reduces my enjoyment of the film.

TWOK is a good film, top 5 for me, but I don't revisit it often.

That's the great thing about making film. If everybody enjoyed exactly the same thing, nobody would have to guess what anybody would like to see and there would be no need for anything new.

 

[fireproof78]

That's the great thing about making film. If everybody enjoyed exactly the same thing, nobody would have to guess what anybody would like to see and there would be no need for anything new.

Indeed. It's nice that TWOK has such a great following after all these years.

Also, Montalban's chest was scary.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Not self-referential? It was a sequel to a TV episode.

Well ... yes, but I'm talking about all of the in-jokes and references the later sequels make such liberal use of to pander to the Trekkies. Even where Khan's backstory was given mention, Nick Meyer took it where he wanted it to go, to get his story told. Chekov's inexplicable familiarity with Khan, for example. But even then, there's never any winking at the audience. None of this, "so, you're all astronauts on some kind of STAR TREK" shite ...

 

[Galileo7]

I have always loved TMP because it felt so grand and different from TOS/TAS. Although, I really liked WOK just because it was a continuation of TOS ["Space Seed"] and part of the trilogy: WOK/SFS/TVH. If WOK had been the first Star Trek film without TMP ever being made, then I don't think a backlash would have happened.

 

[Trekkin]

Also, Montalban's chest was scary.

It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross.

But it's not for the timid.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

wasnt III thought of as better than II for a while in the mid 80s? I Dunno. Maybe not

I don't know about "better," but the two films were certainly considered to be on par with one another. (See the Best of Trek volumes from the time.) I'm not sure when the fan consensus that it was one of the... lesser films developed. Maybe after Star Trek V? Maybe later than that? The Seinfeld episode with Kramer's love for III was a bit baffling to me, as I saw nothing wrong with loving Star Trek III.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I don't know about "better," but the two films were certainly considered to be on par with one another. (See the Best of Trek volumes from the time.) I'm not sure when the fan consensus that it was one of the... lesser films developed. Maybe after Star Trek V? Maybe later than that? The Seinfeld episode with Kramer's love for III was a bit baffling to me, as I saw nothing wrong with loving Star Trek III.

Yeah III fell into the odd-bad/even-good rule/curse maybe after V or VI (up till then II & III were sort of seen as the 2 action packed Trek films)..then the TNG movies reinforced it. Think i remember each TNG film getting reviewed with something along the lines of 'well, the odd/even curse strikes again.' until Nemesis of course, then it was a big deal in reviews that an 'even' had missed the mark. Then with ST09 it wasnt really an issue (only pegg brought It up because he referenced it in Spaced)

 

[Vger23]

Funny about the "curse-" as I prefer Treks I and V to IV and VI. I'm also a huge TMP fan.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

For years WoK was my favorite film, period. But as I've gotten older, I am much more inclined towards TUC. I think it's a smarter, more challenging movie. I've also grown to love TMP. I like to watch it almost like an opera, or the way I watch 2001: A Space Odyssey. Once I get on its wavelength, it can be a meditative experience. And TMP has the best film soundtrack I've ever heard.

Never loved TSFS, and I'm not part of the surge in popularity for that movie in recent years. I do like it though, in particular all the stuff on Vulcan. But it's not one of my favorites. It's just okay.

 

[Spocklight]

WOW, what a fantastic response guys, thank you all!

Eye opening stuff, and tbh I'm surprised that TWOK doesn't seem to be as sacred round here as I presumed it would be.

I co-host a Podcast called 'Spocklight', assessing the Trek films from a non-trekkie perspective so obviously we're not always clued into the general fan view on things, and my co-host, Matt asked in our TWOK episode if there were indeed hipster trekkies who didn't rate it and both my other co-host, Paul and I, were pretty sure this wasn't the case but from the evidence here I can see we weren't quite right.

Would any of you mind if I used some quotes from your responses here in a future episode of the pod as a follow up?
If you want to check out the podcast for yourselves, go to the link below

http://spocklight.podbean.com/

 

[BillJ]

Would any of you mind if I used some quotes from your responses here in a future episode of the pod as a follow up?

I have no issues. Anything I post here is public anyway.