Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.

[jmidnight_99]

How are we supposed to take seriously the opinion of someone who dislikes Bashir?

BeCAUSE kahMANdah, MIEyls and GAHrak said so. KahMANdah,

Hey there were people who still liked Beverly Crusher even after the producers tried to replace the weak character. They replaced her with someone worse for a full season. What's your point? Instead of a boring, weak character played by a terrible "actor" that requires defending on a blog, we could have had a doctor character that was actually interesting. When I re-watch DS9, I fast-forward every scene that doctor is in, and skip the episodes where he is featured. That is how much I dislike the character and the actor. I don't do that for any other Star Trek character. Kes needed to go (or at least take a more minor role) because the character never worked and was at a dead end. An more multi-dimensional character with more interesting possibilities took her place. This doesn't mean Kes was nauseating, and I fast forward through her scenes (athough "Warlord" would make my list of least favorite episodes) That doctor character is TERRIBLE. Even the producers knew it.

 

[stardream]

BeCAUSE kahMANdah, MIEyls and GAHrak said so. KahMANdah,

Hey there were people who still liked Beverly Crusher even after the producers tried to replace the weak character. They replaced her with someone worse for a full season. What's your point? Instead of a boring, weak character played by a terrible "actor" that requires defending on a blog, we could have had a doctor character that was actually interesting. When I re-watch DS9, I fast-forward every scene that doctor is in, and skip the episodes where he is featured. That is how much I dislike the character and the actor. I don't do that for any other Star Trek character. Kes needed to go (or at least take a more minor role) because the character never worked and was at a dead end. An more multi-dimensional character with more interesting possibilities took her place. This doesn't mean Kes was nauseating, and I fast forward through her scenes (athough "Warlord" would make my list of least favorite episodes) That doctor character is TERRIBLE. Even the producers knew it.

The point is your opinion isn't the only one that matters. All of the abuse you hurl at Doctor Bashir is not going to change our minds.

I do agree with you about Kes to a certain extent. I liked the character and the actor but the hard truth was, she wasn't going anywhere in terms of character development.

 

[fireproof78]

What @stardream
You don't have to take me seriously but my opinion will not conform to be taken seriously. Bashier was my favorite character since I was 10, someone who got me interested in Star Trek since TOS and had one of the more fun ongoing relationships with Garak.
Fun and interesting plus character development? My answer remains the same.

And what character development would that be? Do you know the difference between character development and desperately trying to find something for a weak character to do? Out of the blue they made him "genetically enhanced".. give me a break. Same thing with Kes. The character's got nowhere to go, so lets start giving them magical abilities no one else has. Right. At least Kes wasn't as hard on the eyes and ears.

You do seem to have a strong place in your heart for the weak and inferior.

Acceptance. Bashier starts out as smug and irritating, and that is a cover for his genetic enhancement. He was illegally modified and lived in constant fear of discovery. He had to accept himself and hope that his crew mates will accept him.

 

[zar]

they gave up trying to give him a real purpose except to run around sayig "Ka-MAN-dah" and "MIE-LS" over and over.

Did a script search and Kira said "Commander" twice as many times as Bashir throughout the series. What are you going on about here? Do you just hate the accent or something?

That doctor character is TERRIBLE. Even the producers knew it.

Eh?

https://twitter.com/berman_rick/status/577907544909205504
https://twitter.com/berman_rick/status/577942011090702336

"Siddig and Colm, two of the most brilliant actors I've ever worked with, made an incomparable pair of buddies on DS9... When I first saw Siddig on film I wanted him as Sisko." - Rick Berman

"The relationship between Bashir and O'Brien is the best relationship, the best friendship, in the history of the franchise." - Ira Stephen-Behr

Which producers would you be referring to, exactly?

 

[stardream]

Acceptance. Bashier starts out as smug and irritating, and that is a cover for his genetic enhancement. He was illegally modified and lived in constant fear of discovery. He had to accept himself and hope that his crew mates will accept him.

I agree about him in the beginning. He was so naive and annoying but the character changed. The whole 'genetically enhanced' retcon is one of the few that does not affect re-watches. He can carry the oversized generator that it normally takes two men to carry...oh yeah. He's genetically enhanced. Missed the easy question on the test on purpose? So he wouldn't be valedictorian and draw attention to himself. Makes sense.....

 

[Lynx]

The point is your opinion isn't the only one that matters. All of the abuse you hurl at Doctor Bashir is not going to change our minds.

I do agree with you about Kes to a certain extent. I liked the character and the actor but the hard truth was, she wasn't going anywhere in terms of character development.

Kes had more development than most of the Voyager characters.

She's a good character who deserved something better than be dumped after three seasons. Not to mention the attempt to humiliate and destroy the character in season 6.

As for Doctor Crusher, I was really dissapointed when she dissapeared after season 1 of TNG and therefore I was happy when they brought her back in season 3.

As for Bashir, not my absolute favorite in DS9 (that honor goes to Kira and Quark) but still a good character.

 

[Catarina]

Kes had more development than most of the Voyager characters.

I was about to say you're blinded by your love but that's dismissive and inaccurate. I immediately thought she had more development than our own 2nd in command!

 

[stardream]

Well, she had more than Chakotay and Harry. Tuvok stayed pretty static but then he's a Vulcan.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Did a script search and Kira said "Commander" twice as many times as Bashir throughout the series. What are you going on about here? Do you just hate the accent or something?

Kira has five times as much screen time.

They all said "Commander", it was the only way to address the Commander. But with that useless rdead-end role of the doctor, all the acting and over-acting he did was with that word. "KahMANdah, I'm going to complain to STAHfleet medical if you do this, KahMANdah." "Yes, KahMANdah, I am superior to everyone, don't you know KahMANdah." "Yes, KahMANdah, we have to bring down Section 31, KahMANdah. I know what's best for the federation and everyone in it, KahMANdah."

And since you asked, yes. That accent is nauseating And I hate the character, the character's personality, the actor, the actor's personality and his perpetual 5 O'clock shadow ugly mug.

Thanks for asking.

 

[zar]

Kira has five times as much screen time.

Of course, because you fast-forward every scene the doctor is in, and skip the episodes where he is featured.

They all said "Commander", it was the only way to address the Commander. But with that useless rdead-end role of the doctor, all the acting and over-acting he did was with that word. "KahMANdah, I'm going to complain to STAHfleet medical if you do this, KahMANdah." "Yes, KahMANdah, I am superior to everyone, don't you know KahMANdah." "Yes, KahMANdah, we have to bring down Section 31, KahMANdah. I know what's best for the federation and everyone in it, KahMANdah."

How can I have an intelligent conversation with someone whose definition of a character starts and stops with a word?

Thanks for reading.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Kes had more development than most of the Voyager characters.
She's a good character who deserved something better than be dumped after three seasons. Not to mention the attempt to humiliate and destroy the character in season 6.

Gee, you do love your Kes, don't you? She was so good and interesting, and so developed and universally loved that they eliminated the role and dumped the actress. What idiots! Wait. Here's an alternate theory: She was boring. Her relationship with Neelix didn't work, and IT was boring. Her relationship with Tuvok was boring, and a waste of Tuvok's screen time. They tried to re-invent the character twice, and she was still boring. They struggled to find things for her to do, and when they did, she was still boring. And because the idea is to attract viewers, not bore them, they dumped her, and replaced her with a character that was not boring.

And they would have done it to Beverly Crusher too, but luckily for Gates, her replacement sucked even more than she did.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Of course, because you fast-forward every scene the doctor is in, and skip the episodes where he is featured. How can I have an intelligent conversation with someone whose definition of a character starts and stops with a word?
Thanks for reading.

Yes, so for me he has zero screen time, the only way I can watch DS9.

And, you can have an intelligent conversation with someone whose definition of a character starts and stops with a word when... the definition of that character starts and stops with a word. The character is one dimensional, poorly acted, hard to look at, and hard to listen to. He was a childish character who brought nothing to every scene he was in.

And the actor, if you want to call him that expunged every emotion known to man using the word "KanMANdah".

Thank you for asking, and allowing me to state the obvious.

 

[jmidnight_99]

The relationship between Bashir and O'Brien is the best relationship, the best friendship, in the history of the franchise." - Ira Stephen-Behr
Which producers would you be referring to, exactly?

The ones that knew the series would be cancelled if they didn't do something to improve ratings. The ones who brought Michael Dorn and the "Worf " character to the series, and gave him a very prominent role, because BORING main characters like that doctor and Miles needed to be a more supporting role.

And as for quotes, "The Producers" still won't publicly admit they fired Genevieve Bujold because she sucked bad. They still cling to the story that she left when she found out how much work it would be. Yes, an actress 30+ years in the business was oblivious to the amount of work she would have to do. One only needs to see the scenes she filmed, and put two and two together. You can do that when needed, right? You do know they don't make cast changes like firing the original captain, dismissing Kes and adding Seven, or adding Worf and reducing the supporting roles even further when everything is good right?

 

[jmidnight_99]

Acceptance. Bashier starts out as smug and irritating, and that is a cover for his genetic enhancement. He was illegally modified and lived in constant fear of discovery. He had to accept himself and hope that his crew mates will accept him.

How is being smug and irritating a cover for genetic enhancement? How does that work? Who says "I'm going to cover my illegal genetic modification by irritating everyone by thinking I'm better than them"? I think his parents should ask for their money back. He didn't appear particularly bright to me. Or maybe they couldn't completely cure how dumb he was.

He was smug and irritating because the character sucked from day one, and just like giving Kes all those telepathic "powers", they tried to give him a reason to exist by making him genetically enhanced. And like Kes, after "fixing" the character, he was still boring with no way to develop him.

I've been drawing parallels to all these characters and situations. At some point, hopefully it will sink in.

 

[zar]

The ones that knew the series would be cancelled if they didn't do something to improve ratings. The ones who brought Michael Dorn and the "Worf " character to the series, and gave him a very prominent role, because BORING main characters like that doctor and Miles needed to be a more supporting role.

And as for quotes, "The Producers" still won't publicly admit they fired Genevieve Bujold because she sucked bad. They still cling to the story that she left when she found out how much work it would be. Yes, an actress 30+ years in the business was oblivious to the amount of work she would have to do. One only needs to see the scenes she filmed, and put two and two together. You can do that when needed, right? You do know they don't make cast changes like firing the original captain, dismissing Kes and adding Seven, or adding Worf and reducing the supporting roles even further when everything is good right?

Had Worf replaced Bashir, as Seven replaced Kes and Kathryn replaced Nicole, I'd understand your assumption, but given those comments and the fact that he continued to be given significant screen time and episodes (which you skipped), well... I put two and two together. You seem to just be projecting your opinions.

 

[jmidnight_99]

The point is your opinion isn't the only one that matters. All of the abuse you hurl at Doctor Bashir is not going to change our minds.

I do agree with you about Kes to a certain extent. I liked the character and the actor but the hard truth was, she wasn't going anywhere in terms of character development.

It is impossible to "change your minds", and I wouldn't dream of trying. I know all about the world in which I live.

Voyager needed to improve in the ratings, so they needed to make a change . They dismissed the weakest character and created one that would hopefully generate interest and improve the ratings. Tbe Borg were popular, so they made that character an ex-drone. The producers said that they didn't have the cash to keep the Kes character in a smaller role and add another major cast member, so out she went. The addition of Seven to the cast proved successful. She gave the writers much more to work with in terms of new story lines and character development, so the character was prominently featured. Additionally, the doctor was well liked and he was also more prominently featured. Some characters that were less popular were featured in smaller roles, or were the focal point less frequently.

These are not opinions. They are facts, and THAT'S all that matters. But I do know all about the world in which I live, which is why i would never try to "change your minds"

Everything I said above applies to DS9. The show needed to improve the ratings, an interesting already popular character was added to the cast, and other less popular characters were featured in smaller roles or were the focal point of episodes less frequently. The fact is, the show in it's original form was in danger of being cancelled. So they revamped it and boring character's roles' were diminished.

I don't see any opinions here, and because this is how the facts played out it is irrelevant if you agree with me or not. But I do know all about the world in which I live. So I wont try to "change your minds". Go Hillary.

 

[jmidnight_99]

Had Worf replaced Bashir, as Seven replaced Kes and Kathryn replaced Nicole, I'd understand your assumption, but given those comments and the fact that he continued to be given significant screen time and episodes (which you skipped), well... I put two and two together. You seem to just be projecting your opinions.

Worf did replace Bashir. The show became about the Defiant and the Dominion War and the Klingons, and Bashir's role was significantly diminished after the revamp. Did this little "opinion" escape you, or were you just not watching?

Edit: And he became more insufferable as a result. That ugly 5 O'clock shadow mug bellowing "KahMANdah..."

 

[fireproof78]

Worf did replace Bashir. The show became about the Defiant and the Dominion War and the Klingons, and Bashir's role was significantly diminished after the revamp. Did this little "opinion" escape you, or were you just not watching?

Edit: And he became more insufferable as a result. That ugly 5 O'clock shadow mug bellowing "KahMANdah..."

Not sure if serious...

Bashier, O'Brian and Garak all had significant roles and story arcs throughout the rest of DS9, even after Worf was introduced. It continued to be an ensemble show with different characters getting the spotlight throughout the Dominion war.

As for the rest about him, it's you're opinion. I'll still watch Bashier over Worf or Seven or whomever.

 

[zar]

@jmidnight_99, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that Bashir's role was "diminished" using only facts.

Factually, the character was featured in more episodes per season (and had more episodes centering on him) in 4-7 than 1-3. Indeed, statements were made by the producers expressing a desire to grow the character more in these later seasons (note that whether he actually did grow is an opinion, but that these statements were made is a fact).

 

[Sophie74656]

Gee, you do love your Kes, don't you? She was so good and interesting, and so developed and universally loved that they eliminated the role and dumped the actress. What idiots! Wait. Here's an alternate theory: She was boring. Her relationship with Neelix didn't work, and IT was boring. Her relationship with Tuvok was boring, and a waste of Tuvok's screen time. They tried to re-invent the character twice, and she was still boring. They struggled to find things for her to do, and when they did, she was still boring. And because the idea is to attract viewers, not bore them, they dumped her, and replaced her with a character that was not boring.

And they would have done it to Beverly Crusher too, but luckily for Gates, her replacement sucked even more than she did.

Agree so so so much