Jaylah and Krall Prime Universe

[Romulan Loyalist]

Soft canon?! Never heard that one before.

I think nobody found Krall and Jaylah. There was no Starbase there and the nebula/asteroid belt hid them until a planet killer came along.

Well as per STO itself -

For Star Trek, canon is defined as anything that has appeared "on screen" - either in one of the six television series or in one of the twelve Star Trek movies. Star Trek Online, as a game, is considered soft-canon and any of its stories might be contradicted by future Star Trek television shows or movies.

As for never being discovered.. there not ever being a starbase there - I would say that's a variable. We don't have any information regarding the nebula, the planet, or frankly the ship until STB.. Finding their place in Prime without the events of the Kelvin timeline would suggest that as i said in an earlier post, the possibilities are endless.

 

[The Wormhole]

They got the definition of soft canon wrong. Soft canon just refers to stuff that is in the TV shows or movies that isn't actually meant to be followed. Like for example, the stuff in the Defiant database in Enterprise's Mirror Universe story. It has all the hallmarks of canon, it's onscreen, it's written by the episode's writer, in this case Mike Sussman, but no one else follows it. In this case, unknown to Sussman at the time he wrote those files up, Berman and Braga were writing TATV which contradicted stuff in the Defiant files, particularly about Shran.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Soft canon = no canon. If other sources are free to ignore events, as the novelverse and the IDW comics have, then it's no more binding than any other tie-in.

 

[Timo]

I think nobody found Krall and Jaylah. There was no Starbase there and the nebula/asteroid belt hid them until a planet killer came along.

Krall appeared to have a steady supply of Jaylahs, though. Or at least nothing to the contrary was indicated (although it might be Krall's great hunger after capturing the Starfleet crew came from long fasting). Plenty of people were finding him, then.

And we still don't know why and how Kirk was different from the others, save for carrying the Abornath piece. Did it matter that he was a Fed, flaming Krall's anger into flames of anti-Fed action at long last? Did it matter that with his capture, Starfleet would be pissed off and soon arriving with a mighty fleet of ships that might put an end to Krall's rule or existence? Would an El-Aurian with the secret of starkiller probes, say, have been a sufficiently Kirk-like captive to goad Krall out of his shell?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Soft canon?! Never heard that one before.

Well, I think you need to take some Viagra if you suffer from soft canon. However, if your canon lasts for more than four hours, please report to sick bay immediately.

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, I think you need to take some Viagra if you suffer from soft canon. However, if your canon lasts for more than four hours, please report to sick bay immediately.

Somewhere in here there's a joke waiting to be told about something 50 years old having trouble with getting its canon up...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Somewhere in here there's a joke waiting to be told about something 50 years old having trouble with getting its canon up...

Whatever it is, it'll be a loaded joke.

 

[Tuskin38]

but no one else follows it.

No one has contradicted it either. There has been no Hard canon sources in the Prime Universe since then.

 

[The Wormhole]

No one has contradicted it either. There has been no Hard canon sources in the Prime Universe since then.

It has been contradicted, like I said TATV flat out contradicts what was in those files about Shran in IAMD.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Plus, Archer was referred to as "Admiral Archer" in ST'09, when going by the IaMD bio he should have been "President Archer". And long dead.

*cue repeat of 2009 debates about it not being the same Archer*

 

[Tuskin38]

It has been contradicted, like I said TATV flat out contradicts what was in those files about Shran in IAMD.

Where was Shran mentioned in the bios?

 

[The Wormhole]

Where was Shran mentioned in the bios?

In Archer's file, it talks about the friendship which developed between Archer and Shran to the point that Shran was instrumental in making Archer an honorary member of the Andorian Imperial Guard. Also, Shran is referred to as a General, meaning he's been promoted since we had last seen him Then in TATV, Shran faked his death and has been trying to live a quiet civilian life and wants noting to do with the military anymore. And was never a General.

 

[Timo]

All of that is firmly on the "soft" side of the files, of course, the half that was never shown on screen. And isn't the argument about "soft canon" that whatever survives the onslaught of onscreen contradiction can still be classified as such?

Happily, very little of such ever gets a chance for onscreen fame.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Leaving out, for the moment, how bad TATV is, the very fact that the entire episode is a holodeck program is proof enough that nothing in it can be taken as "true".

 

[The Wormhole]

Leaving out, for the moment, how bad TATV is, the very fact that the entire episode is a holodeck program is proof enough that nothing in it can be taken as "true".

It's a holodeck program based on documented historical events. And while some errors or inconsistencies are bound to pop up. To assume otherwise is like expecting a movie about the Titanic showing it being eaten by a giant sea monster or a movie about JFK's assassination taking place in Sydney, Australia where he's shot by Bigfoot. Actually, I'd probably prefer that over all the grassy knoll nonsense...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's a holodeck program based on documented historical events.

Which can be tampered with.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Jaylah works at a Starbucks on Starbase 7. Krall has a Sunday morning infomercial about the secrets to eternal life.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Did it matter that with his capture, Starfleet would be pissed off and soon arriving with a mighty fleet of ships that might put an end to Krall's rule or existence?

A mighty fleet? Krall's swarm dissected a ship at least slightly based on Borg tech, and larger than the Enterprise-E, effortlessly. What chance do you think the Prime TOS Starfleet would have? (Hell, what chance do you think the Borg would have??)

 

[Nebusj]

Which can be tampered with.

Picturing now a Section 31 operative, sometime in the late 23rd century, fiddling with service records. ``A-ha,'' she says to herself, ``Someday, I just know, someone will look up a simulation of what Shran might have said or done in mid-2161 and thanks to my work now, they will be wholly misinformed about his proper rank! It's brilliant, brilliant I tell you!'' And someone else says, ``Molly, when's the last time you had a vacation?'' And she turns her screen around to show that according to the records she is on vacation right this second and her service records aren't tampered with. And she cackles, mad with power.

 

[Timo]

A mighty fleet? Krall's swarm dissected a ship at least slightly based on Borg tech, and larger than the Enterprise-E, effortlessly.

Which ship would that be? No Borg in the new movies, certainly not in connection with a certain Romulan mining rig, and no indication that the E was based on lessons learned from the Narada anyway.

What chance do you think the Prime TOS Starfleet would have? (Hell, what chance do you think the Borg would have??)

Pretty good, I guess. No need to go against the swarm: just destroy Altamid and kill Krall. Which Starfleet would decide is the prudent thing to do exactly because the swarm is such a threat. (After the death of Krall, the swarm might turn out to be a pretty nifty mining tool.)

Of course, we never saw the Prime TOS Starfleet in action. There's no in-universe reason to think it would be different from the Kelvin TOS Starfleet, in terms of ship size (it would have the exact same old ships), although it might have better shielding and more potent photon torpedoes.

Timo Saloniemi