Who is going to win this election in November?

[indycar]

No, see, crap is excreted from your body's back exit, while gender fluids are ... not.



Porn says differently.


All joking aside, you, @indycar , seem to be at least trying to be reasonable, but emotions are running rather high right now. So, let me try to explain the problem with HB2 in a calm manner:

Nobody here is saying a pervert man walking into a ladies room is okay.

However, there are very, very few cases of this actually happening. Sure, when it happens, it is not okay, but it is still a very, very rare thing. Trans-women needing to use the bathroom, though, is not rare at all, as I'm sure you will agree.
Now, aside from their birth sex, they are women. If you can imagine how uneasy women feel if a man is in the same restroom as them, I'm sure you can also imagine how uneasy they would feel if they were forced by law to use the men's room. Especially if there were cases (and far more than the pervert men walking into the ladies' room without commiting any other crime) of trans-women being assaulted, both sexually and as a hate-crime,

If there was a law that could prevent pervert men "just claiming to be women" walking into ladies' rooms without barring trans-women access to the ladies' room, and was easily enforcable without people having to carry around their birth certificate and/or have guards at the entrance to any public restroom, I'm sure nobody (except for pervert men who want to hear women farting) would have a problem with it. But no such law exists, and HB2 is certainly isn't it. Such a law is simply impossible. You are free to prove me wrong, if you can write such a law, please, go ahead.

But in the end, HB2, and any national law in the same vein, will end up harming far, far more trans-women, than any pervert man would be stopped from entering the ladies' room. You have to weigh one against the other, you cannot have both. And considering the latter happens so rarely it is a statistical anomaly when it actually happens, I choose to oppose laws like this.

I do agree with that. It's like I said on one of my first posts on this topic: the incidents that I refer probably happen more than what Democrats want to say, but a lot less (key phrase there) than what Republicans want to say. I just want to have something that allows transgender people the right to go to the bathroom of their identifying gender, while at the same time preventing any man from following a woman into a restroom because they claim to identify as a woman at that moment. I realize this may be nearly impossible, but it's what I want and it's what I support.

I have maintained my views during this discussion and I have defended my views, as a result, I am finished talking about this.

 

[indycar]

I'd say that getting upset over posts that seem to lack human compassion or empathy shows a pretty strong character.

I'm sorry I don't like cyberbullying.

 

[Long Syntax]

indycar - you're trying to be reasonable... rational. The folks here don't appreciate that - they only appreciate you walking in lock step with them. If you don't - or dare to question them - you are a racist, bigot, homophobe. Now, they'll backtrack and say no no, they never said that - but it's clear this is the case.

Good on you for trying, but recognize when you just aren't getting anywhere. We just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Squiggy]

I'm sorry I don't like cyberbullying.

People challenging your ill-informed opinion that you willingly offered is not cyberbullying.

 

[Sindatur]

How about the fact that a man can go into a women's restroom and all he has to say is that he identifies as a woman and he can get off scott free.

I hope most of you realize that I won't be changing my views on men following women into the restroom.

That's not how it works. Transgender people who were born with Male genitalia are not males they are females in their minds, they were just born with the wrong parts. You do realize, before a Law was even thought about being implemented there were Transgendered People using the Bathroom of the Gender they Identify with right? All throughout time, as a matter of fact. There is no history of any violation or charges of any man pretending to be Transgendered in order to get into the Women's Bathroom, so, why would you imagine that there is going to be an issue now?

How exactly are you going to identify someone breaking your laws? Are you going to use stereotypical look of a Transgendered person, and if a Woman looks too masculine for your Criteria (Or a man looks too feminine), are you going to prevent her from going into the Women's bathroom? What if she was born with Female Genitalia, but, just isn't feminine looking? Does she get to sue for slander and denying her right to use a Public Restroom? Maybe a Feminine looking man is actually a Transgender who was born with male parts, but, identifies as Female, what Bathroom is she supposed to use? You won't let her into the Men's Bathroom because you think she's a Woman, and your Law says she can't use the Women's bathroom because she was born Male. How do you know a Masculine looking Transgender who was born with Male Parts stiil has Male Parts, and hasn't had Reassignment Surgery?

Oh, and it's nobody's business but Scott's who gets him off, or wether Scott or the person getting him off pays anything or not

 

[Pingfah]

I do agree with that. It's like I said on one of my first posts on this topic: the incidents that I refer probably happen more than what Democrats want to say, but a lot less (key phrase there) than what Republicans want to say. I just want to have something that allows transgender people the right to go to the bathroom of their identifying gender, while at the same time preventing any man from following a woman into a restroom because they claim to identify as a woman at that moment. I realize this may be nearly impossible, but it's what I want and it's what I support.

I have maintained my views during this discussion and I have defended my views, as a result, I am finished talking about this.

Everybody here would like a situation where Transgender people can use the bathroom of their choice, but evil pervert males can't go and rape women when defenceless in the toilet. I mean serously. WTF.

 

[BillJ]

Some historical perspective...

https://archive.org/stream/DianeMil...-Rape Myth in Historical Perspective_djvu.txt

Fictional accounts of black rape could not rival the unimaginable atrocities
committed in the American South in the name of avenging the rape of white
women. The South witnessed numerous lynchings, many ostensibly of black
men who had raped white women, whose only real crime may have been an
inadvertent glance at a white woman that extended for a moment too long to
be deemed appropriate. As portrayed in both The Clansman and To Kill a
Mockingbird, threats to white women by black men in the South, real or
perceived, were often capital offenses. More than likely, an accused black rapist
did not even make it to trial. If he did make it to trial against all odds, as Tom
did, the outcome was all but foreordained. Either before his arrest or after, a
mob, often abetted by local law officials, would seize the alleged black rapist
and murder him. The most notorious demonstration of the "rape complex" at
its ugliest and most extreme was of course the trial of the "Scottsboro boys" in
the 1930s. The nation, indeed the world, was mesmerized by the egregious
injustice and naked racial discrimination that Alabama authorities were trying
to pawn off as justice. Scores of other alleged black-on-white rape cases that
never approached the Scottsboro trial in notoriety dotted the southern land-
scape. 2

 

[Awesome Possum]

How many conservatives would approve of a law meant to stop gun violence by taking away everyone's guns unless they could prove beyond any doubt that they would never harm anyone for any reason? Sure some innocent people would lose their guns, but we'd be saving lives and that's what matters. Isn't it? It has nothing to do with limiting rights, we're stopping the bad people. I don't want to take away the guns from good people. But we have to do something.

 

[BillJ]

How many conservatives would approve of a law meant to stop gun violence by taking away everyone's guns unless they could prove beyond any doubt that they would never harm anyone for any reason? Sure some innocent people would lose their guns, but we'd be saving lives and that's what matters. Isn't it? It has nothing to do with limiting rights, we're stopping the bad people. I don't want to take away the guns from good people. But we have to do something.

GUNZ R FREEDUM!!!1!

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Everybody here would like a situation where Transgender people can use the bathroom of their choice, but evil pervert males can't go and rape women when defenceless in the toilet. I mean serously. WTF.

There are already laws against rape. "Evil pervert males" who aren't deterred by rape laws aren't going to be deterred by bathroom laws.

 

[indycar]

indycar - you're trying to be reasonable... rational. The folks here don't appreciate that - they only appreciate you walking in lock step with them. If you don't - or dare to question them - you are a racist, bigot, homophobe. Now, they'll backtrack and say no no, they never said that - but it's clear this is the case.

Good on you for trying, but recognize when you just aren't getting anywhere. We just have to agree to disagree.

I wasn't trying to convert somebody's beliefs. Somebody started this topic and I gave my opinion on it. Some people tried to challenge my views and I defended them. I guess people on here must really want me on their side if they go to these lengths to change my opinion.

 

[indycar]

People challenging your ill-informed opinion that you willingly offered is not cyberbullying.

I think people calling me a racist, an unsubstantiated claim, qualifies as cyber bullying.

I respect all people, even people who disagree with me. I expect the same respect in return.

 

[BillJ]

I guess my question is this: how do these laws protect women in restrooms? We already have laws against rape, as pointed to a couple posts ago. How does this enhance that protection?

 

[Pingfah]

There are already laws against rape. "Evil pervert males" who aren't deterred by rape laws aren't going to be deterred by bathroom laws.

I agree, my use of that phrase was deliberate hyperbole. I was just pointing out that despite the bizarre paranoia he seems to have about men nefariously entering women's bathrooms, being opposed to men attacking women in toilets is not as exceptional, or contrarian a belief as he seems to think.

 

[indycar]

Everybody here would like a situation where Transgender people can use the bathroom of their choice, but evil pervert males can't go and rape women when defenceless in the toilet. I mean serously. WTF.

I'd like to here your solution.

 

[Pingfah]

My solution is, don't worry about the incredibly rare occurence of men dressed in drag attacking women in bathrooms, and let transgender people pee wherever they want.

 

[BillJ]

I'd like to here your solution.

Treat transgendered folks like the human beings that they are. We've had transgendered folks since the dawn of man, I had never heard of there being an issue with them using the bathroom they identify with until the hate started to spew.

 

[indycar]

I still haven't received any solutions to stop men from following women into restrooms against their wishes. A reason why the amount may be higher than some reports is that it is not a crime for a man, in most states, to go into a women's restroom, as long as they say that they identify as a woman. Meaning that if there's no crime, there's nothing to report.

 

[BillJ]

I still haven't received any solutions to stop men from following women into restrooms against their wishes. A reason why the amount may be higher than some reports is that it is not a crime for a man, in most states, to go into a women's restroom, as long as they say that they identify as a woman. Meaning that if there's no crime, there's nothing to report.

You don't think the right wing media wouldn't report every single instance they heard of?

I think we should ban men in parking lots. Lots of assaults happen there.

 

[Manticore]

I still haven't received any solutions to stop men from following women into restrooms against their wishes.

What's your solution for a rabbit mugging you?

You don't have one?

Why, it's almost like I'm asking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

That was a metaphor by the way. I'm not calling you bunnyphobic or anything.

I guess people on here must really want me on their side if they go to these lengths to change my opinion.

People are discussing things on a discussion forum.

I think people calling me a racist, an unsubstantiated claim, qualifies as cyber bullying.

...no. @Robert Maxwell didn't actually call you racist; he just said that you were using similar tactics through the use of metaphor.