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Frustrations with Trek lit...

Really, my biggest problem is very limited funds. A new book is a luxury item to me and I have to really justify it 100%. I'm wary to pick up a Trek novel that is part of an ongoing continuity. £7.99 is a lot for me.:sigh:

7.99 plus however many books you have to buy to either finish the story, or catch up on the story so far. Or because book A is occurring off camera during book B só to find out what X character was actually doing after their B plot abruptly wandered off, or because you actually like X character and want to see what they are up to now. (If you like Dax and Bashir, the good news is, the book isn't out till doomsday, and you might not like it anyway. If it's Data...same deal. If it's Nog or Vic or Tuvok, you will need to pull out pages from half a dozen novels and hand stitch them)

On the plus side, Amazon have a refund policy, and ebooks are usually cheaper anyway. I am a good boy these days and try not to take advantage of that unless a book is really really really bad. Piracy is an option for some, but to be fair to the publishers, they have got a bit better with omnibuses and rolling sales, so plugging gaps for a pound each on older books is perfectly sound. I bought the Voyagers as they came, but had to get one in physical cos of a cock up...I then got it for a pound in the sale. Half a season of Voyager relaunch for less than a tenner (or about 4 years worth of Voyager books) was a good bargain.

But that raises the other point...imagine it took you ten years to be able to watch the last season of Ds9.....that would have killed your interest. And that's what's happening in the books. It's also why every damn novel has to give you a guided tour of the new station, and yet it still feels totally devoid of any character. Half the time as a reader, I end up thinking of the old one anyway, because it's just easier.

I don't know if it falls afoul of story ideas...but please let the prophets just handwave the current Ds9 continuity into a tin hat. I love bits of it but so damn much is not worth keeping. Including the new station.
 
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But that raises the other point...imagine it took you ten years to be able to watch the last season of Ds9.....that would have killed your interest.

Twin Peaks is getting a new season pretty soon; that's been 26 years and people are still super excited about getting a new one, so not necessarily. :p

And it's not quite 10 years, but Young Justice just got picked up for a third season four years after it was cancelled, and the excitement over that among old fans was huge.

Fandoms can be very intense, and time doesn't always kill them off.

Edit: Oh, how'd I forget one of the huge examples: Doctor Who. There was a 9 year gap between the old and new series (or 16 if you don't count the TV movie as a revival per se) but the fandom was still huge across that entire gap.

I mean heck, one of my own personal hugest fandoms (Planescape) hasn't had any significant new material in it in about 15 years, and my interest hasn't waned even one iota in it.
 
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Twin Peaks is getting a new season pretty soon; that's been 26 years and people are still super excited about getting a new one, so not necessarily. :p

And it's not quite 10 years, but Young Justice just got picked up for a third season four years after it was cancelled, and the excitement over that among old fans was huge.

Fandoms can be very intense, and time doesn't always kill them off.

Edit: Oh, how'd I forget one of the huge examples: Doctor Who. There was a 9 year gap between the old and new series (or 16 if you don't count the TV movie as a revival per se) but the fandom was still huge across that entire gap.

I mean heck, one of my own personal hugest fandoms (Planescape) hasn't had any significant new material in it in about 15 years, and my interest hasn't waned even one iota in it.

That's gaps between seasons. I am talking between episodes. Assuming each book to be a two or three parter, each of the ongoing relaunches is averaging six episodes a year (and that's being generous)

It has taken about two years to move forwards what feels like about 5 episodes worth on Ds9

You could compare it to Sherlock, but frankly, I don't like Sherlock partly for that reason.

The gaps between seasons/series...yeah, that I get, and that's really a relaunch scenario rather than a hiatus (though the BBC will tell you different on Who...after all they never really actually cancelled it.)

But what I am suggesting is spreading the last season of Ds9, all its ongoing stuff between those early standalone episodes....over years.

The biggest argument in its favour is the Khan/Search/Voyage trilogy took about four years. But films are different and only three characters and a slightly larger expanded cast to worry about there.
 
The Voyager relaunch is written by only one writer so it is hard to put out more than two VGR books per year and IMO they are better than every other Trek novel I've read so far,
 
I bit the bullet and went back and read the 'A Time To...' books and went on from there. I'm glad I did but right now I'm in a position where I have the time and money to do that. I like the overall arc that all the books have taken BUT if someone would release a book set during Season 4 of TNG or Season 3 of DS9 I would probably read it that too.
 
I wonder would that be a good idea for the novellas. To dip back into the TV series timelines and give us some episode length stories.
 
I wonder would that be a good idea for the novellas. To dip back into the TV series timelines and give us some episode length stories.
The only problem with that is the novellas tend to be ebook only anymore, and I have no real desire to read books that way.

On the other hand, if that's the only way we can get 24th century stories set in their shows' time frames I might just have to convert.

Maybe.

Possibly.

We'll see.
 
Apropos of the new and rather indistinguishable DS9 crew members...they had a really great and unique character in Elias Vaughn...yeah,you guessed it ...he was killed off.:shrug:Top decision making there geniuses.
Guess there isn't much room for grey-haired Starfleet officers.
 
Ok, so I'm going to ask a question here and it may be the most important one asked in this thread. :lol:

By and large are the books that are TOS standalone books?

My real area of interest is in post TMP books, movie series but I'd be more than happy to read 5YM books for the rest of my life.
More post-TMP books for me too, but my number-one preferred area would be more post-TVH stories set aboard the Enterprise-A, with the slightly-older-and-wiser TOS crew. Getting some of these recent works like the 23rd Century sections of Prey and Greg's stories helped scratch that itch somewhat, but it's still a tragically-underexplored time period in modern TrekLit.
 
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7.99 plus however many books you have to buy to either finish the story, or catch up on the story so far. Or because book A is occurring off camera during book B só to find out what X character was actually doing after their B plot abruptly wandered off, or because you actually like X character and want to see what they are up to now. (If you like Dax and Bashir, the good news is, the book isn't out till doomsday, and you might not like it anyway. If it's Data...same deal. If it's Nog or Vic or Tuvok, you will need to pull out pages from half a dozen novels and hand stitch them)
But the shows really weren't that different, there were a lot of episodes where certain characters didn't appear, and a lot of the story arcs progressed sporadically over the course of several years. Hell, Worf's whole Klingon Empire/Family Honor story arc went through two different series and about 9 years if we start with Sins of the Father and finish with What You Leave Behind.


But that raises the other point...imagine it took you ten years to be able to watch the last season of Ds9.....that would have killed your interest. And that's what's happening in the books. It's also why every damn novel has to give you a guided tour of the new station, and yet it still feels totally devoid of any character. Half the time as a reader, I end up thinking of the old one anyway, because it's just easier.
That's gaps between seasons. I am talking between episodes. Assuming each book to be a two or three parter, each of the ongoing relaunches is averaging six episodes a year (and that's being generous)

It has taken about two years to move forwards what feels like about 5 episodes worth on Ds9

You could compare it to Sherlock, but frankly, I don't like Sherlock partly for that reason.

The gaps between seasons/series...yeah, that I get, and that's really a relaunch scenario rather than a hiatus (though the BBC will tell you different on Who...after all they never really actually cancelled it.)

But what I am suggesting is spreading the last season of Ds9, all its ongoing stuff between those early standalone episodes....over years.

The biggest argument in its favour is the Khan/Search/Voyage trilogy took about four years. But films are different and only three characters and a slightly larger expanded cast to worry about there.
This argument doesn't really work, books operate on a very different system, so you really can't judge them based on weekly, multi-season TV series. Hell, it's taken 20 years just to get five books in the Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones book series.
The Voyager relaunch is written by only one writer so it is hard to put out more than two VGR books per year and IMO they are better than every other Trek novel I've read so far,
The writer is now also a writer for Star Trek: Destiny, so it's going to be even longer between books now, the next book has already been delayed.
Apropos of the new and rather indistinguishable DS9 crew members...they had a really great and unique character in Elias Vaughn...yeah,you guessed it ...he was killed off.:shrug:Top decision making there geniuses.
Very much agree.
 
(why nobody ever notices the oxymoron of wanting fiction to be more "real" is beyond me.)
Entire branches of literature have been formed to try to deal with this problem. (One of them's called "realism," even.)
The Face of the Unknown is about as standalone as anything from me can get. That is, it's a one-and-done story, but it does have continuity nods to other works (mine and others') and I put it at a point in the timeline that let me make it feel like a story that had a lasting impact on future events, sort of like Ex Machina but in a subtler way (hint: It's set between TOS and TAS).
I can see it now.

KIRK: We're beaming down. Spock, Bones, you're with me. To the transporter room.

CAPTAIN KIRK tries to get on the turbolift but the doors won't open.

UHURA: Captain, Mister Chekov was bringing coffees up onto the bridge for me and Mister Sulu and he couldn't hold them all and spilled coffee into the mechanisms. It's jammed.

CAPTAIN KIRK: Mister Scott, maybe we should have a second turbolift. Put that in tomorrow. And Spock, tell Chekov he's fired. Get me a new navigator-- one with enough hands to carry three cups of coffee.

Finally, the untold story!
 
I can see it now.

KIRK: We're beaming down. Spock, Bones, you're with me. To the transporter room.

CAPTAIN KIRK tries to get on the turbolift but the doors won't open.

UHURA: Captain, Mister Chekov was bringing coffees up onto the bridge for me and Mister Sulu and he couldn't hold them all and spilled coffee into the mechanisms. It's jammed.

CAPTAIN KIRK: Mister Scott, maybe we should have a second turbolift. Put that in tomorrow. And Spock, tell Chekov he's fired. Get me a new navigator-- one with enough hands to carry three cups of coffee.

Finally, the untold story!

At least one part of that is actually kind of right. ;)
 
The new ebook novellas might also be a a good home for pre-"Relaunch" stories set back during the TV seasons . ...

I wonder would that be a good idea for the novellas. To dip back into the TV series timelines and give us some episode length stories.

I think this is a great idea. The shorter length of the novellas lends itself perfectly to TV episode-style stories... we have already seen examples of this. And my understanding is that the ebook schedule and paperback schedule are distinct from each other, so you can add in ebooks set during the series without impacting the 12-per-year paperback schedule. Those of us who like the ongoing, interconnected novels still get that, and those of us who want to get TV-style stories set during the run of the shows could get that too. Everybody wins.
 
This thread has been incredibly useful to me, so thanks to all that have posted. I now feel comfortable enough to buy a TOS book.

Still would love to read more TOS movie era books though.
 
But the shows really weren't that different, there were a lot of episodes where certain characters didn't appear, and a lot of the story arcs progressed sporadically over the course of several years. Hell, Worf's whole Klingon Empire/Family Honor story arc went through two different series and about 9 years if we start with Sins of the Father and finish with What You Leave Behind.




This argument doesn't really work, books operate on a very different system, so you really can't judge them based on weekly, multi-season TV series. Hell, it's taken 20 years just to get five books in the Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones book series.

The writer is now also a writer for Star Trek: Destiny, so it's going to be even longer between books now, the next book has already been delayed.

Very much agree.

Books do indeed work on a different system. But these are Star Trek books, so the system is different again. Not least as half the world and half the characters are already made for you. You just have to tell a story with them, and add the bits you need that don't already exist. You can argue no one wants a paint by numbers Trek story, except some of the books coming out are that, and this thread clearly illustrates that sometimes, yes, yes we do want that. We want five guys staring at a big screen, (the Cross gender variant of guys here) wondering at the mystery, getting stuck in, getting stuck, getting out and home for replicated tea. We want the people we like, the ones that come with the banner on the front of the cover as promised, and we want them to do stuff.

Game Of Thrones (it's much shorter to type than its proper grand and pointless title.) is not a good example, firstly because it's pretty awful (opinion) but mostly cos it's one dude writing it and making it all up. Trek has half a dozen authors or more and could easily find more. Granted most of them have other jobs too. Where the two are similar is that GRR Martin is neve happy working with what he has and keeps putting more stuff in till the whole lot seems to spiral a bit out of control. He also likes to kill his toys when he gets bored with them, but only after making sure the reader is probably bored of them too (unless he's just messing with readers favourites...but then he's not a fan of the reader/writer promise that's sort of implicit in this sort of work.)

Your argument about that specific strand of words story is true...but only for that strand. Very rarely was stuff left outright dangling, usually a new status quo was reached. (Worf is discommended, Worf has his family name back, oh he's lost it again, martok has adopted him etc.) later, a different story is told and his status quo is changed again. That's narrative. At no point did he wander off mid episode to do something, or put events in motion, and then you wait years for that to be followed up on with absolutely nothing in the interim. The books scheduling on the other hand means this is happening all the time. (Dax in the stockade, vic in his odd holostory which is being doled out at the rate of one paragraph a year across three titles. Data is back...but may as well not be because that story is totally unresolved and doesn't fulfill that writer/reader promise because cake is being eaten in a quantum state there, Bashir is stuck in some kind of odd loop and is totally stuck, Sisko has been almost but not quite leaving on a mission, but is mostly walking down corridors and looking at padds....for four years.) They are also suffering from Beverly Crusher syndrome (lines and scenes that should really be given to her character are given to the producers favourite guest star...like Tenmei helping Bashir escape...when his best bloody friend in the world gets one line from engineering. In a book that also guest stars Katherine Pulaski. Sigh.) Even the literature only characters are suffering from that now...as you mentioned, Elias Vaughan was on life support for a about a billion years before finally being put out of his misery with a ghost moment. It's really really noticeable in the Ds9 books. You can blow up the enterprise, and give the crew a new one, because it's the same crew. You can incrementally change the crew by about half, and it just about works, because it's mostly the same lead characters (about half) and the same ship. Ds9 is a different station, and only about ten percent of the series crew (at an absolute stretch...really it's just quark) is still actually on the station. The rest are cameos or shoehorns. (Rules of accusation is the best Ds9 book in years...but hoops were jumped through to let Odo do what he does.)
It's a mess. And what is realistic in the real world (hey man, people move on all the time and do new things) isn't realistic in Trek (because crews stay together for ten, twenty, thirty years or more, unless a totally catastrophic event kills some and drives wedges between others....before getting reset by time travel.)
The next big event needs to be a quasi reset in exactl the way the great 'return to exploration' at the end of The Fall wasn't. You need to get those characters back where they are meant to be, even if they have changed in some way or their positions aren't quite the same. Because when a book has the title of a given series on the front, you expect to rea about those characters....and you can see the writers straining to follow up on each other's work (ro and quark, ro and doctor lost in time chap, then have to flip flop in the next book a bit because no one got the memo...including quark. Bev crusher guest starring as a locus for Bashir, but no one quite sure why, but hey, we get to have her face to face with Pulaski who is there because....reasons. Who then get to live through a season one Ds9 story.) and keep it all coherent while juggling balls they didn't know existed.
The prophets need to smack some reset in so it can stop being such a mess and ironically get some linear time going again over there.
Man.
I rant sometimes.
 
Apropos of the new and rather indistinguishable DS9 crew members...they had a really great and unique character in Elias Vaughn...yeah,you guessed it ...he was killed off.:shrug:Top decision making there geniuses.
Guess there isn't much room for grey-haired Starfleet officers.

I'd say Blackmer is the only new and indistinguishable Deep Space 9 character (he's so bland that I had to look up his name just now), that's more a TNG problem right now. The issue with DS9 is more that the new and interesting characters that were introduced back when aren't really used much anymore either. I want to see more Prynn, Candlewood, and Phillipa in the new DS9 books.

You can argue no one wants a paint by numbers Trek story, except some of the books coming out are that, and this thread clearly illustrates that sometimes, yes, yes we do want that.

It illustrates that some of us sometimes want that. Like I said earlier, that honestly has no appeal to me at all, and I'm pretty sure JD said essentially the same thing, for two examples. I'm all about long character development and world building over time, and I'd love to get back to the DS9/SCE relaunch schedule of spending multiple real-life years on a single continuous in-setting year. :p
 
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