Frustrations with Trek lit...

[JoeZhang]

I have a slightly different issue, I like books set after the series - I just don't find the direction the books have gone in that interesting - it was an interesting change about a decade ago but at this point, I'd prefer they just went back to the point the shows finished at and just rebooted from there.

 

[Idran]

Personally, myself, I just can't really connect with a character if there's no progression or development or memory there; the more episodic a series is, either TV or book, the less I want to connect with one, since I know that whatever is happening won't matter anymore for that character once the book's done anyway, and any development I can pull out over time has to be subtextual. (Granted, when I do watch or read an episodic series, I love constructing that on my own, but it's not the same as having it be part of the text because it always has to be far more subtle.)

A lot of posters here have mentioned it being akin to "comfort food", but myself, I only barely ever have that feeling from standalone stories, because my comfort in media is with emotional connection to characters as long-term entities. I always want to know what happens next to them, how they'll deal with X or what choices they'll make because of Y or what have you. And the more decompressed the better for me.

 

[JD]

For me, personally, my only real frustration is with DS9 and where it's gone. I'm all for a change in status quo in the titles after their TV runs--I liked where TNG, VOY, and ENT went--but I just feel that too much changed in DS9 for me. It might be because of where my favorite characters went, and I'm not really digging who replaced them.

Yeah, I'm not very fond of the newer DS9 stuff either. The original relaunch cast was great, but none of the characters brought in after Destiny have really gotten to me the way Shar, Prynn, Vaughn, ect. did. Those three characters especially, are just as much a part of DS9 as Sisko, Kira, Quark, Bashir, ect. are for me, but the new characters like Blackmer, and..... uh... I can't even remember any of the other new characters names, which I think pretty clearly makes my point for me. DS9 has gone from being one of my absolute favorite series, to one I just enjoy.

 

[RandyS]

I have a slightly different issue, I like books set after the series - I just don't find the direction the books have gone in that interesting - it was an interesting change about a decade ago but at this point, I'd prefer they just went back to the point the shows finished at and just rebooted from there.

I guess it was that way for me too. At first, I didn't mind the changes made. I just didn't expect the 24th century stories I knew from the shows to disappear so completely and the changes would be all we would get. I hoped there would be more of a balance. In the book VOYAGES OF THE IMAGINATION, several writers and editors commented more than once that the series New Frontier and Vanguard were created so that the characters could be more "real" (why nobody ever notices the oxymoron of wanting fiction to be more "real" is beyond me.) and their frustration with having to keep the shows' characters reset at the end of each book. I assumed those two new series would give them what they wanted and the five TV show book lines would stay as is. Everybody happy right? Wrong.

 

[Jinn]

why nobody ever notices the oxymoron of wanting fiction to be more "real" is beyond me.

I wouldn't call that an oxymoron. Fiction is always somehow based in reality and characters not changing the slightest over the course of 25 years just doesn't feel very real and also doesn't make a lot of sense in-universe. The only usually fictional stuff for a Trek story is the science fiction stuff, the characters are still like real life humans.

I assumed those two new series would give them what they wanted and the five TV show book lines would stay as is.

New Frontier is written by one guy and Vanguard by three, and there are definitely more authors who want to write characters who don't have to be reset after the end of the novel.

 

[Greg Cox]

The reset thing never bothered me. You want to make lasting changes to a character, don't write tie-in books.

Plus, you can always include "guest-star" characters who do change by the end of the story, like on TOS.

 

[Jarrod]

I would settle happily for ONE 24th century book a year that was set during the timeframe of ONE of the original runs of their shows. 1/12th of the current publication rate. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Thrawn]

I would settle happily for ONE 24th century book a year that was set during the timeframe of ONE of the original runs of their shows. 1/12th of the current publication rate. Is that too much to ask?

I'm as pro-ongoing-24th-century-novel as they come (in case the fact that I help make that flowchart left anyone in doubt) but I would still agree with this. In particular, there are so many opportunities for TNG episode sequels in the manner that TOS gives us all the time. I'd love to, for instance, read a novel set within first season that gets inside everyone's characterizations then.

 

[RandyS]

I'm as pro-ongoing-24th-century-novel as they come (in case the fact that I help make that flowchart left anyone in doubt) but I would still agree with this. In particular, there are so many opportunities for TNG episode sequels in the manner that TOS gives us all the time. I'd love to, for instance, read a novel set within first season that gets inside everyone's characterizations then.

A book that would feature Tasha Yar? Given that those stopped almost immediately, I'd like that too come to think of it.

Good call.

 

[VDCNI]

Yes the odd book set during the TNG time line would be interesting. It would be good seeing those characters interact again. Even the odd scene showing they stayed in touch would be nice. The Crusher/Troi friendship has been ignored in recent years for example.

Generally I prefer the books to move on though I'm glad they seem to be slowing down a bit as the time line leaps were getting a bit much. They're certainly not perfect though. I think it's notable that Voyager is the strongest series at the moment, most of the original cast are there but the newbies have been given plenty of care and attention in a similar way to the DS9 relaunch and properly integrated with the TV crew. TNG on the other hand still doesn't feel settled, too many cast changes and an us and them situation with the TV crew. Kadohata and Choudhury started to feel like part of the group but then both got dumped. I like Chen but she's quite divisive and her position means she's often not needed depending on the plot. The others really haven't got going yet though at least the new direction looks like helping in that regard.

It's at least a step up from DS9 which lost most of its TV crew and then most of the interesting replacements to be replaced by nothing. Losing Kira was a big blow as well as ripping the heart out of Sisko. Hopefully something interesting can be done with him but it's not happened yet. Dax and now Bashir are gone so we're left with O'Brien, Nog and Quark but they've had little to do in the main novels of late. Ro is there but she's barely the same character anymore and might as well be Kira and the rest of the new command crew are horribly bland. Desca only got a storyline as he was being shown the door. Stinson and Candlewood barely have a personality and Blackmer has been going round in the same Ro doesn't trust him/he's incompetent circle for too many books now.

Titan reached a low with the Typhoon pact stuff with the characters seemingly locked in with the same basic issues they all had in book 1. It's notable that the recent Voyager book addressed Tuvoks problems better than any Titan book. The newest book was a huge step up though with a potentially interesting new mission so hopefully that will continue.

On that note it's worth noting that for those who went less continuity and big events TNG and Titan look to be getting that with their new directions, though obviously with continued characterisation, even if that has been temporarily been interrupted by the Prey trilogy to no good purpose based on Book 1.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

DS9 had the big stumbling block of effectively needing a time jump to catch up to the ongoing TNG/Titan stories. I honestly think it was a mistake to drag out the whole Ascendants storyline in the way that it happened, with DS9 ending up being 'caught up' by way of Typhon Pact novels (Rough Beasts, Plagues of Night, Raise the Dawn), The Fall, and THEN putting the conclusion to the Ascendants thing in Sacraments of Fire/Ascendance, which split the 2377/2386 narratives between them.

That 'decade of wheel spinning' on this one storyline crippled the line in my opinion, and, since we didn't get to see the characters moving on and being replaced as time went on, the result was that they basically 'joined' the story as part of an infodump, where there was no real sense of who they are for the audience, because they appeared effectively spontaneously and yet, with all the other things that need to be cleaned up and dealt with, they don't really get to shine - Ro is basically the central figure of DS9 right now, and, while I believe there's still enough distinction between her and Kira, I understand where people are coming from in saying they are basically filling the same role in the story. The rest of the crew is still struggling to establish themselves, because their involvement has really been mostly in terms of moving the plot along through the Event stories taking place around them - PoN/RtD, The Fall...

Really, one of DS9's strengths in my opinion was the revolving writers, who would focus on this element or another, letting certain things take a backseat as they gave more focus to other areas - Avatar was establishing the new status quo, giving a major Kira plot point and a new arc for her, but the next book, Abyss, was a Bashir focus story. I feel like it would do DS9 good to get voices other than just DRG involved - we've seen that with Una McCormack and Jeffery Lang, but neither of them had the opportunity to really play with any of the new characters.

I mean, Wheeler Stinson finally got some characterization in Ascendance, after having appeared in at least two books before that. At the moment, I really couldn't tell you who holds what position on the crew anymore. I REALLY want to see the 'main' storyline of the DS9 novels at the moment be resolved so that we can just get a chance to have a more proper 'pilot' for these characters, to be better introduced to them.

This has kinda been a similar issue I've had with TNG - Elfiki's been part of the crew for years now, and I really can't think of something of a defining character moment for her. Same with Faur and Smrhova - I had to consult Memory Beta to see who the crew actually was. Chen and Dygan have at least managed to make an impact on me, but the rest of the crew who've joined in the post-Destiny novels are really blank slates from my perspective.

In addition to getting even one slot of 24th century novels set during the run of their respective shows, I'd honestly appreciate some timeline backtracking, just to give these characters a more prominent role in between the Events.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Ok, so I'm going to ask a question here and it may be the most important one asked in this thread.

By and large are the books that are TOS standalone books?

My real area of interest is in post TMP books, movie series but I'd be more than happy to read 5YM books for the rest of my life. @Christopher the new book you've got coming out looks interesting, is it standalone?

 

[JD]

As far as I know all of the TOS books that aren't part of a trilogy, or other kind of miniseries are standalone. TOS movie era books aren't that common but there have been a couple recently.

 

[Christopher]

This has kinda been a similar issue I've had with TNG - Elfiki's been part of the crew for years now, and I really can't think of something of a defining character moment for her.

Ironically, Elfiki's biggest role to date seems to have been in a non-TNG book, DTI: Watching the Clock.

@Christopher the new book you've got coming out looks interesting, is it standalone?

The Face of the Unknown is about as standalone as anything from me can get. That is, it's a one-and-done story, but it does have continuity nods to other works (mine and others') and I put it at a point in the timeline that let me make it feel like a story that had a lasting impact on future events, sort of like Ex Machina but in a subtler way (hint: It's set between TOS and TAS).

I do have a habit of incorporating connections and Easter-egg nods to my own prior Trek works in later works, so that there's this whole network of overt and subtle links tying them together -- e.g. revisiting races from Orion's Hounds in the DTI books, or adding the security characters I created for Aftermath to the Titan and Enterprise-E crews, or just name-dropping the same ancient alien civilization in passing in two different works. It's the same impulse I follow in my original SF universes, to treat everything as a connected whole and reuse worldbuilding elements to help tie it all together. I doubt I can even remember all of the interconnections among my own Trek works at this point. It'd be interesting if someone could compile a list.

But it'd put me in a bind if something ever happened that led to portions of the novelverse being retconned out -- like JoeZhang's suggestion above of going back to the ends of the shows and rebooting the novel continuity from there, which implicitly would allow pre-series or during-the-series books/stories to remain -- and I assume that rebooting the 24th-century continuity wouldn't necessarily affect the post-ENT or post-TMP eras. But I've built so many interconnections among my own Trek tales in all eras that it's kind of all-or-nothing at this point. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration, but a partial reboot would leave some dangling connections.

 

[Greg Cox]

As far as I know all of the TOS books that aren't part of a trilogy, or other kind of miniseries are standalone. TOS movie era books aren't that common but there have been a couple recently.

And even the trilogies tend to be standalones, just standalones comprised of three books that tell one big story and then end . ....

 

[jaime]

Standalone novels within just the past year include TOS: Miasma and The Latter Fire and DS9: Force and Motion, as well as the upcoming TOS: The Face of the Unknown.

I have t gone through the rest of the thread yet, but at least one of those is a novella rather than a full fledged novel, and Force and Motion, whilst standalone, is part of the waaaaaaay beyond what we saw on TV DS9 rererelaunchflashbackwhatsgoingonwhowithwhatquarkshaggedwho? Continuity. In which it is a breathe of fresh air, even if it was pulling continuity from O'Briens TNG backstory. It's also up to its ears in post Destiny PTSD, opening with Maxwell in prison. In fact, it's oddly like it borrows more from Voyager than DS9.

 

[jaime]

Yes, this exactly. I have less than zero interest in some grand unfolding meta-plot that's a continuation of the series I love. I want more TOS with the whole crew on the ship, series or movie era. I want more TNG with the whole crew on the ship, series or movie era. I want more DS9 with the whole crew on the station, and the station at the mouth of the wormhole...because apparently it's since moved in the lit universe...

But that's kinda the whole point. There's no jump-on point. It's a continuing serialized story at this point. Either you read recaps of most of the stuff since the relaunch or you're shit out of luck and confused to no end. As the tail of the meta-plot gets longer, the harder it will be for new readers to get on-board.

And no offense to the Trek lit writers, but I'm not interested in most of the side characters that have been promoted to center stage, nor am I that interested in stories centering on one on-screen main cast member surrounded by characters I've never heard of and don't care about. Clearly you're doing something right because people are reading your books, and well done for that. But I just want straight TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT fiction. Something recognizable and familiar. Which is the entire point of reading tie-in novels. To me at least.

VOY is mostly intact. Has a few new faces, but only about two or three of any note, and Tuvok has to get permission to cross the lot from the Titan sound stages...

 

[jaime]

Overgeeked - have you read the literally hundreds of Star Trek novels written before, say, 2000? There's still more novel stories like you're describing than there are serialized ones.

Thing is...should he have to? Generally speaking the quality of writing has improved in some areas, and odds are, like me, those books have been read or reread. One of the biggest problems is the time jumps for the Ds9 relaunch and the Destiny stuff. Voyager managed its catch up better, but they literally hand waved years of Ds9 , resolving it a tiny bit with a flashback that is literally taking years to resolve, and ignored a year or more. It's taken about two years of books to move the equivalent of about two weeks in that series now. Maybe a bit more on either side. Dax may as well be serving a life sentence in the stockade, and Bashir should have just been killed off. Seriously. It's a mess.
Things are a bit better over in TNG land, with Titan folded back in to all intents (though the current candidates for Worfs girlfriend are at least looking like they won't live even before they start dating. A new personally best for the man who has a little black book because it's the colour of mourning and just saves time.)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I would settle happily for ONE 24th century book a year that was set during the timeframe of ONE of the original runs of their shows. 1/12th of the current publication rate. Is that too much to ask?

When Star Trek: The Next Generation reached its twenty-fifth anniversary in 2012, it struck me as exceedingly odd that the only literary project set during the series' run was IDW's Doctor Who crossover. Frankly, I don't think that one novel a year is too much to ask, but I'm not the one who makes the schedule.

 

[JD]

My attitude when it comes to the whole novelverse of interconnected stories vs stand alones is that we got 726 episodes, 9 movies, and hundreds books of stand alones so getting a big interconnected series of stories is a nice change of pace. I didn't start reading Trek books until right around the start of the DS9 Relaunch, so if I want a stand alone novel, there are hundreds for me to choose from that I've never read.
As for not knowing where to start, it really wouldn't be that hard to find which books are a good place to jump in, there are plenty of places to look on the internet to find them, and if you're already on here then we are more than happy to help. You might not be able to just pick up any random Trek book, but unless you have some compelling reason that you have to read a specific book, then I don't really see why it would matter if you read A Time To Be Born book instead of Takedown, or Avatar instead of Ascendance.
I'm the kind of person who does a lot of research before I start something, so I guess I find the idea of trying to just randomly pick up a book, even a Trek book, kind of odd. I like to know exactly what I'm getting into when I'm about to start something.