HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

@Kahless the Unforgettable You s3em to think that everything we saw involving Lawrence/El Lazo, the Man in Black, William, and Logan would have to be part of Lawrence's "loop", which isn't what I'm saying. The only parts of Lawrence's normal "loop" that we saw would be the stuff in Pariah and the stuff with him in Sweetwater about to be hanged, which would be the end of his story before everything starts over. Everything else would be "off-loop".

You should re-read what I wrote then.

Right now there's circumstantial evidence that there might be multiple timelines, and a lot of things that happen in the William/Login story which would require really roundabout explanations to not follow from things that happened in the 'Present'.

Not really.

How do you explain Dolores' behavior in the past if it didn't happen after her software update?

You don't. Everyone has had that update rolled back. How they're acting now is exactly how they were acting before the Reverie update, sans the abundant glitches/awakenings.

Lawrence's strange contradictions *might* be evidence toward multiple timelines, but it also might be one of the things they're referring to when they talk about Ford's big project causing continuity errors.

Uh, no, that's not a continuity error. A continuity error would be more like the woodsman who wandered off looking for Orion, or hosts unable to fulfill the storylines/arcs because of the interference Robert is creating. Lawrence is in two separate, distinct stories.

So far we have mild evidence that suggests the possibility of multiple timelines, and a whole lot of things that would have to be heavily explained if that were the case. Frankly, if it does turn out to be multiple timelines, it will be crappy writing.

It's actually the other way around. It's just the people who refuse to accept the strong possibility of multiple timelines keep conveniently ignoring/dismissing the sheer volume of evidence. The different logos (they don't add things like that in a story unless it has meaning). The different conditions of the subway (they don't add things like that in a story unless it has meaning). William and Logan completely disappearing from where they were sitting in the railcar as Delores stares blankly (they didn't just decide to go take a piss break because they weren't in the foreground; their absence has meaning). etc.

 

[RJDiogenes]

They're probably playing with us, giving us simultaneous hints that it's multiple timelines and that it's not multiple timelines. Their ultimate purpose is to drive a wedge between us so that they can send in their robots to take over TrekBBS.

It's probably just that there are multiple copies of the same model. Or maybe parallel games running in different parts of the park. Would that explain it? I don't know. I'm just going to watch and find out.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Without getting into posting a dozen different pieces of evidence supporting the multiple timeline theory, the biggest tell for me from a narrative standpoint is why are they spending so much time keeping William and Logan separate from the MiB yet having them consistently interact with the same Hosts unless there was some point to doing that? If William, Logan, and the MiB are all running around at the same time, why are they just missing each other over and over again? Don't you think that's a little strange if there's ultimately no payoff to their separation?

 

[ITL]

At this point, I'm leaning towards it being multiple timelines. Still not sure if William is the MiB, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he was.

 

[ihno]

If there were two timelines what is Dolores doing in the MIB-timeline? We only see her 30 years ago, don't we?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

If there were two timelines what is Dolores doing in the MIB-timeline? We only see her 30 years ago, don't we?

She's been hosting the whole time.

 

[Takachulo]

If there were two timelines what is Dolores doing in the MIB-timeline? We only see her 30 years ago, don't we?

No. The two timeline theory has Dolores retracing her steps from 30 years ago in the present. That's why they have the shot in the railway car where she's standing with William and El Lazo and the camera moves and you see she is all alone in the car.

Here's a very helpful timeline explaining the William in Black theory (with some extra theorizing), shamelessly stolen from Duckroll at the Neogaf forum:

- MiB says he has been coming to the park for 30 years
- The last critical failure was mentioned to be 30 years ago
- Arnold died 34 years ago

If we put everything together it would possibly look like this:

37 years ago - Ford and Arnold start Westworld together and they spend 3 years building the park and perfecting the tech

34 years ago - Arnold kills himself through some elaborate scheme and leaves hidden code behind with Dolores as a trigger to destroy the park

30 years ago - William and Logan visit the park as Delos executives looking to buyout the park which has been running for several years but running low on funding now

30 years ago - Arnold's code in Dolores activates for the first time leading her to William and Logan, and leading her to "the maze" which is Arnold's grand plan

30 years ago - William stops Dolores and saves the park when things go completely south, Delos buys it out

Today - William has been drawn back to the park again and again over the years looking for meaning behind what happened 30 years ago, while Arnold's code activates in Dolores again, things are coming full circle

 

[ihno]

Thanks, Takachulo for the detailed answer.

Yes, I remember that she saw herself and have also noticed that William and L. were not in the train (or whatever) anymore.

Maybe you're right but I don't know if that would make me return for a second season because that all sounds very constructed.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It does require a lot of effort to try to deconstruct and reconstruct what's going on and no-one is yet sure that any of the various theories are correct (although I believe the producers have indicated that some people have gotten very close). I can see that such a format could be offputting to many, but it's not really that much more complex than a whodunit, and it's also possible just to go along with it as a somewhat visceral ride in the park and enjoy the "scenery". Given JN's input, all will be revealed at some point and I expect it to be more satisfying than the sorry conclusion of "Lost".

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Low bar.

One thing about the dual timeline theory above: If Dolores had to be stopped from destroying the park thirty years ago, why does she still exist? She would have ended up in a trash compactor-- or abandoned in the lower levels with Yul Brynner (whose name I managed to spell right this time).

 

[DigificWriter]

Arnold died before the park opened, so all that supposed dating posted above is bunk.

 

[ihno]

^^ Low bar.

One thing about the dual timeline theory above: If Dolores had to be stopped from destroying the park thirty years ago, why does she still exist? She would have ended up in a trash compactor-- or abandoned in the lower levels with ...

Any why does she still wear the same clothes? Are robot clothes indestructable?

Yul Brynner (whose name I managed to spell right this time).

Very good.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

One thing about the dual timeline theory above: If Dolores had to be stopped from destroying the park thirty years ago, why does she still exist?

Who said she tried destroying the park thirty years ago?

Some of her initial programming apparently kicked in then, but whatever ends up happening, someone/something reboots/reprograms her and her 'awakening' coding doesn't kick in again until after the Reverie update 30 years later. Which is when things are undoubtedly going to get interesting, as she never made it to the maze originally (else William/the Man in Black wouldn't be hunting for it now).

And considering the Man in Black is, thus far, the only person outside the park that we actually know (and more importantly, met) who has any real clout or significance, chances are he's the one who's been getting the intel from whoever has been transmitting it.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Any why does she still wear the same clothes? Are robot clothes indestructable?

You obviously haven't been introduced to the Dual Clothesline Theory.

 

[ITL]

You obviously haven't been introduced to the Dual Clothesline Theory.

THERE'S MORE THAN ONE CLOTHESLINE?!?

 

[ihno]

But imagine if a robot gets shot in a scripted loop and needs clothes that makes more than 9.000 suits/dresses...

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

But imagine if a robot gets shot in a scripted loop and needs clothes that makes more than 9.000 suits/dresses...

Why have a huge wardrobe of different clothes instead of a huge wardrobe of a single outfit?

Do the robots in the Hall of Presidents get new wardrobes daily? And how long has that been running?

 

[ihno]

I don't know that Hall of Presidents. Do they get shot every day so the clothes get holes? Or ripped off their bodies so people can have intercourse with them?

But then in WW there are magic bullets, I forgot. Maybe Teddy's shirt stays intact after his daily tortue?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Probably more like a TV show. I doubt Bob Denver wore the same shirt for the entire run of Gilligan's Island, but in-universe Gilligan did.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

I don't know that Hall of Presidents. Do they get shot every day so the clothes get holes? Or ripped off their bodies so people can have intercourse with them?

You completely missed the point.

You're talking about a piece of machinery's paintjob, basically. Or an employee's uniform. It's far cheaper and easier to keep using the same type of outfit than it is to buy/create an entire wardrobe of clothing for each and every host. That way the only time you have to change it is when the narrative demands it. Sort of like military soldiers in the field; they have one outfit and wear that outfit until commanded to change into something else.