Eddington's counseling sessions

[Voth commando1]

I hope this doesn't veer of too far into general trek/federation topic territory but anyway in blaze of glory we see Eddington depressed and "bored". He says he faces endless counseling sessions and psych evaluations.

What do these counseling sessions entail? He isn't mentally ill he consciously chose to commit treason(out of personal conviction though). What exactly are his counselor(s) asking/doing with him?

 

[fireproof78]

If he is feeling "depressed" then that would be the first step. Attempting to identify the source of his feeling depression, and what can be done about. After the sessions, he might begun a deeper introspection that his depression isn't from clinical symptoms, but a larger problem that he feels his personal beliefs are at odds with the organization he serves in.

As a counselor, I would start with then he felt that way, and what has changed? Ask him how his daily routines are, and what he would consider things to be different or what it would look like if he wasn't bored or depressed.

Understanding his point of view really requires listening to him and gauging how his attitude and thoughts are impacting his behaviors.

 

[Voth commando1]

How would you handle his despair over the maquis being wiped out? Seems like a barrier to rehabilitation.

 

[Timo]

IHe isn't mentally ill

But he is - ever since TOS, crime has been defined as a mental illness, of which those afflicted are cured, and never punished or tortured into desisting like we do today.

Kasidy Yates and Garak both were held for half a year for utterly dissimilar crimes - smuggling medical supplies and attempting the annihilation of a sapient species. This cannot have been freedom-deprivation punishment or it would be unjust: punishment won't work as a deterrent unless it is somehow commeasurate with the severity of the crime. No doubt their respective mental illnesses were treated during those six months, and to good effect: neither ever relapsed, but OTOH neither lost the ability to commit other sorts of crime, either.

Heck, Harry Mudd was counseled for the transporting of stolen goods and use of counterfeit currency, and apparently never relapsed, either! Brainwashing is what happens to criminals in Trek, and not just to violently insane ones: it can be tailored to cure the mildest of illnesses, apparently.

As for how the counseling sessions might proceed, "Dagger of the Mind" offers one viewpoint. Apparently there was very little wrong or unexpected about the use of the Neural Neutralizer...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Voth commando1]

But he is - ever since TOS, crime has been defined as a mental illness, of which those afflicted are cured, and never punished or tortured into desisting like we do today.

Kasidy Yates and Garak both were held for half a year for utterly dissimilar crimes - smuggling medical supplies and attempting the annihilation of a sapient species. This cannot have been freedom-deprivation punishment or it would be unjust: punishment won't work as a deterrent unless it is somehow commeasurate with the severity of the crime. No doubt their respective mental illnesses were treated during those six months, and to good effect: neither ever relapsed, but OTOH neither lost the ability to commit other sorts of crime, either.

Heck, Harry Mudd was counseled for the transporting of stolen goods and use of counterfeit currency, and apparently never relapsed, either! Brainwashing is what happens to criminals in Trek, and not just to violently insane ones: it can be tailored to cure the mildest of illnesses, apparently.

As for how the counseling sessions might proceed, "Dagger of the Mind" offers one viewpoint. Apparently there was very little wrong or unexpected about the use of the Neural Neutralizer...

Timo Saloniemi

So that's rather...frightening any behavior outside of social normality is removed... ...

 

[fireproof78]

How would you handle his despair over the maquis being wiped out? Seems like a barrier to rehabilitation.

How would I? It's going to be based on his willingness to work with me. I can't force him to deal with that despair, and he would have to grieve in a healthy way. But, socially healing is not something that can be put on a time table.

So that's rather...frightening any behavior outside of social normality is removed... ...

Well, that's the nature of the Federation with its planned societies and controlled environments. Since Roddenberry envisioned people not needing to grieve, to accept death as a part of life, I would say experiencing grief outside the socially acceptable process might result in the treatments that are seen in "Dagger of the Mind" or "Whom Gods Destroy."

 

[Christian Weston Chandler]

But he is - ever since TOS, crime has been defined as a mental illness, of which those afflicted are cured, and never punished or tortured into desisting like we do today.

Kasidy Yates and Garak both were held for half a year for utterly dissimilar crimes - smuggling medical supplies and attempting the annihilation of a sapient species. This cannot have been freedom-deprivation punishment or it would be unjust: punishment won't work as a deterrent unless it is somehow commeasurate with the severity of the crime. No doubt their respective mental illnesses were treated during those six months, and to good effect: neither ever relapsed, but OTOH neither lost the ability to commit other sorts of crime, either.

Heck, Harry Mudd was counseled for the transporting of stolen goods and use of counterfeit currency, and apparently never relapsed, either! Brainwashing is what happens to criminals in Trek, and not just to violently insane ones: it can be tailored to cure the mildest of illnesses, apparently.

As for how the counseling sessions might proceed, "Dagger of the Mind" offers one viewpoint. Apparently there was very little wrong or unexpected about the use of the Neural Neutralizer...

Timo Saloniemi

Your faith in the internal consistency of the shows' canon is admirable.

 

[Timo]

So that's rather...frightening any behavior outside of social normality is removed...

Well, no. Specific crimes result in "therapy" that makes the offenders highly unlikely to repeat those specific crimes. But the therapy does not turn these people into "socially normal" ones by any stretch of the concept - Garak remains Garak, Mudd remains Mudd, and they're free to dream up new and innovative crimes as they wish. There's no mention of multiple offense being grounds for a more thorough brainwashing or anything.

How is this more frightening than torturing criminals with freedom deprivation in the hope that this would make them good people?

Your faith in the internal consistency of the shows' canon is admirable.

Isn't faith always to be admired? And the more so the less factual basis there is for it?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In Star Trek universe, criminality is considered a psychological condition that can be cured and rehabilitated through therapy.

 

[Jedman67]

I heard he had counseling sessions with Garak

 

[fireproof78]

Well, no. Specific crimes result in "therapy" that makes the offenders highly unlikely to repeat those specific crimes. But the therapy does not turn these people into "socially normal" ones by any stretch of the concept - Garak remains Garak, Mudd remains Mudd, and they're free to dream up new and innovative crimes as they wish. There's no mention of multiple offense being grounds for a more thorough brainwashing or anything.
Timo Saloniemi

I was thinking of the neural neuralizer, but it was destroyed at the end of the episode.

Eddington seems to need more than counseling, but actually allowed to express his frustration. Maybe holodeck therapy?

 

[Leviathan]

You have it all wrong.

As a young officer, perplexed that councillors outranked him, he eventually came to hate Starfleet. Endless talking about his feelings are what brought him to treason...too many hours talking about feeling makes security staff turn to violence. When finally captured, his punishment was the most painful inflicted by any species: therapy.

 

[Voth commando1]

You have it all wrong.

As a young officer, perplexed that councillors outranked him, he eventually came to hate Starfleet. Endless talking about his feelings are what brought him to treason...too many hours talking about feeling makes security staff turn to violence. When finally captured, his punishment was the most painful inflicted by any species: therapy.

How does that translate to sympathy for the maquis? Or are you being sarcastic?

 

[Timo]

I was thinking of the neural neuralizer, but it was destroyed at the end of the episode.

However, the neutralizer was not an exceptional piece of equipment: another is found at Elba II in "Whom Gods Destroy", Elba apparently being the overflow facility for incurables while Tantalus was a run-of-the-mill facility for curing criminals using the Adams Method. Also, Adams' methods were found acceptable until the point of inexcusable excess that our heroes witnessed in the episode itself, and they apparently relied on the neutralizer or a machine much like it even back in those days when everything Adams did was over the counter. (Sure, Noel says the machine itself is more advanced than what she has seen before, but stresses that it is not groundbreaking in concept.)

At the conclusion of the episode, Adams' excesses are condemned. But the good he did might not fall victim to this, as evidenced by the Elba II machine and the fact that our heroes who originally found him a good guy can't have been completely wrong (the same logic by which Khan has to be a halfway decent guy even at the end of "Space Seed", and why Garth of Izar has to be shown making the beginnings of a recovery - or why John Gill has to at least appear to repent before dying).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Leviathan]

How does that translate to sympathy for the maquis? Or are you being sarcastic?

I could *never* be sarcastic. Promise.

 

[Voth commando1]

I heard he had counseling sessions with Garak

Now that would have been...interesting.