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Humans(2015) TV series

The cops wife modifying the male synth so that he would be more intense in the bedroom was the second best part of the whole series. The best part being that she called her husband (who she dumped in favour of said male sex-bot) to come and help her deal with his unwanted thrusting.

I like this show. The blonde synth is so gorgeous, it's almost painful.

She's beautiful but she'll always be the ditzy hippy from The Inbetweeners to me.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjorbU08lDk[/yt]
 
Just binge-watched the whole season of this. I quite liked it. Sure, it covered ground that other stories have done before, but I think it covered it more intelligently and engagingly than most, with really good character writing and an effective, nuanced handling of the issues. For instance, it was so refreshing to see a character actually say to the secret oppressed group on the run, "Tell your story to the press, the publicity will protect you." That is so right -- it can't be as easy for the state to go around sending secret hit squads after aliens/robots/superhumans/whatever or dissecting them in secret labs if they go on TV and present themselves sympathetically. At the very least, there'd be controversy and investigations and the government's ability to act would be limited.

I'm actually disappointed that the season ended with the secret not getting out, the consciousness program not being released. I want to see that change in the status quo and its ramifications. Hopefully they're saving that for a later escalation and we'll see it before the end of the series.

Did the uncut UK version ever explain where "Anita" took Sophie at the end of episode 1?


I don't understand why people were reacting with looks and gasps of horror when the idea of screwing a synth was brought up. They're designed to be smoking hot stunners with all the necessary lady holes and sex protocols for Christ sake. "OMG, I can't believe he banged the gorgeous sex-bot."

Well, the issue with Joe and "Anita" is that she wasn't purchased as a sexbot, but as a caregiver for the family, children included, and that the others in the family had bonded with her. So there was more emotional complication to the act than there would be with, say, Laura using a vibrator. And that's on top of the mess that Joe and Laura's marriage was already in. The issue wasn't that he had sex with a synth, it was what that represented about their problems.


One issue I've always had with shows/films about AI is the way they very often conflate self-awareness with emotional awareness. Why would the synths feel emotions just because they're sapient, self-aware beings?

Well, the real reason is for audience identification. We feel emotions, so if the AIs are to be sympathetic and comprehensible to us, they need to as well. (For all that TNG bought into the conceit that Data had no emotions, it was always pretty obvious that he did, even if they weren't as intense as the human kind. He had hopes and regrets and affinities and dislikes, even if he didn't cry or laugh.)

But there is a valid explanation for it, which is that you can't really separate emotion from conscious thought. Emotion means motivation. They're both from a root meaning "to move." Our emotions are what motivate us. They're our impetus to act and to react. Any mind capable of more than following rigid programming, any mind capable of making choices, needs a reason to favor one choice over another and an incentive to make any choice at all. That's the role emotion plays. It's intimately tied to self-awareness too, because our emotions tell us about our own mental state. They tell us how we are reacting to things or what we're motivated to do. If you know that your situation is affecting your mental state in a negative way, then you know that you feel bad. If you know that your cognitive processes are compelling you to obtain something, then you know that you feel desire. And so on. Feeling is not separate from thinking, it's another layer of thinking.



Is it me or does Leo look like Benedict Cumberbatch's raggedy younger brother?

Looks more like Merlin's raggedy slightly older twin. ;)

But really, Colin Morgan is a pretty amazing, very intense actor. I think he was sometimes wasted on Merlin as the nice, funny hero.

And yes, Gemma Chan is really striking and does a great job playing a synth. I actually quite liked Anita, even though she was a much cruder persona than Mia. I understand the dramatic reasons for having the sapient synths act more human, but I would've preferred it if they'd still been distinctly inhuman in their sapience.


I like the family dynamics laid bare by the presence of the synth. The wife is not very sympathetic (IMHO). The son covering for the dad...and he dad stepping up to take responsibility, I thought that was all very moving.

Laura started out unsympathetic, but ended up becoming the most sympathetic and sensible one in the family. I really love that growth process, the way she went from feeling dismissive and threatened to bonding with Anita (even before she met Mia) and developing respect for her. So much character growth in the family in just eight episodes, Laura most of all.


How has the cop been able to hide all this time? Edna picked out Niska in one second. Don't they have company physicals or something?

Well, she faked a scar and devised a way to fake eating and drinking. Presumably she found other ways to pass as human.

I think it would've been harder for Niska, who was new at it. I wasn't convinced that contact lenses would be enough. Wouldn't synths smell different from humans? And they wouldn't sweat or get flushed. And I'm not sure about breathing. Odi's and Max's vocal glitches suggested synthesized voices rather than breath-created ones, but Mia did inhale sharply when she awoke.


I'm not entirely clear on how Max got fixed at the end, and Fred didn't. Some sort of reset button? Computer magic?

The program they activated together was the code to instill sentience in a synth. Max's sentient root code was degraded and he needed a new infusion of same. But Hobb's reprogramming of Fred was on top of his existing root code. The Elster program wouldn't have been designed to erase such an addition.

By analogy, giving someone a blood transfusion will replace lost blood, but it won't cure a bone marrow disease. Maybe if they crashed Fred's consciousness and reinstalled it like with Max, that would clear the Hobb code, but that seems like a very risky thing to do.


I do wonder about the long-term plans for the world in this show. The pro-human movement marching in the streets certainly has a point. What future is in store for humanity when synths can take so many jobs? But once Pandora's Box has been opened, there's no going back.

I'm with the pundit on the news show in the beginning. Freeing humans from menial labor frees us to do more creative things with our lives, to spend more time with our loved ones. We already have much more leisure time than our forebears did, and it hasn't harmed us.



Really however empathetic Mia and co are, Karen is right, synths with consciousness and free will do potentially mean the end of humanity (as we know it) the question becomes, do we step aside gracefully or do we fight back?.

Humanity as we know it has ended several times before, as new technologies or social systems have transformed life radically. Every major innovation has been condemned and warned against as the imminent destroyer of all things good and righteous, but we've just adapted to the change and kept on going. The assumption that change to something new would just mean the end of everything is simply a failure of imagination.

The real truth about what lies ahead can probably be found in the lie Hobb told to Fred about his motivation, when he said that eventually humans and synths would grow closer together, would intermingle and become parts of a greater whole. Yes, humanity would change, but change is the basis of life's continuation, not a threat to it. (And if synths are the offspring of humans, and if we created them in the image of humans, doesn't that make them part of humanity already?)
 
Dissapointed that we in the U.S. apparently got different edits of the episode. I kept waiting for the scene discussed earlier in the thread regarding the cop's wife and her unfortunate mod of her synth. Never happened. Now wonder what else got edited out.

!!! that's terrible!

Arrg, I should have known better. The US networks always screw up the editing and pacing of the Doctor Who episodes, which is why I always prefer to watch the original BBC versions instead, and I totally should have done the same with this show as well.

Because it did really feel like something was a bit off with the editing and flow of the story at times.
 
I'm really hoping that the BBC version ends up on Netflix or the like. I have a sneaking suspicion that quite a bit of material never made it to broadcast here in the US due to trimming for content and also creating commercial time space. Anyone know what the BBC run time was vs. US run time (say 42 minutes)?
 
I'm afraid I've been having some fridge-logic thoughts about the series in retrospect:

If Elster "didn't care about bodies" and picked the sentient synths' appearances at random, how come they're all so good-looking?

Why did Leo arrange for Niska to hide out in a synth brothel? Didn't he realize what that would do to her emotionally? And why did she ever agree in the first place?

Why did the authorities have so much trouble tracking down Leo, Niska, and the others in London, a city with ubiquitous video surveillance?

Why are synths superstrong? It's a longstanding trope of sci-fi for androids to have superstrength, but it doesn't make sense for consumer products like synths. These are mechanisms that interact closely with human beings, including children. Even with "Asimov blocks" preventing them from intentionally hurting humans, accidents and breakdowns are still possible, not to mention human error and human stupidity. (E.g. a human tries to punch a synth, breaks his hand on it, then sues the company for damages. Even frivolous lawsuits are costly.) So for safety and liability reasons, the company would want to design them to break more easily than a human body would, and to be incapable of applying enough force to damage a human. Since they do have a capacity for self-repair, that somewhat negates the need to be super-durable.

Of course, synths working in things like construction or rescue work would need to be strong and durable, but that leads into my next question: Why don't we see a wider taxonomy of robots? Shouldn't synths be just one variety of robot alongside other, less humanoid ones to fill other niches? Wouldn't some consumers prefer less organic-looking robots? Wouldn't other designs be useful for other jobs? Obviously this is a budgetary issue for the show, but it would've been nice to see at least a few indications of other types of robots in the world. True, the show is evidently set in an "alternate present" where robotics is more advanced but everything else is the same, but still, a more advanced science of robotics would surely result in more than one category of product.
 
Well, the issue with Joe and "Anita" is that she wasn't purchased as a sexbot, but as a caregiver for the family, children included, and that the others in the family had bonded with her. So there was more emotional complication to the act than there would be with, say, Laura using a vibrator.

Then buy a Barbie version. Buying one with sex protocols is like coming home and finding out that your husband has hired a prostitute to be the housekeeper. Alarm bells? And if all synths have sex protocols then why be surprised if those protocols are accessed? That's what they're there for. I don't buy that a culture that churns out sex-bots is... shock horror.. appalled when they get used for sex. There's something disingenuous about that. The culture would either be appalled at synths having sex protocols (and therefore demand synths without genitalia) or the culture would accept that synths are sex toys (and therefore lack any judgement). The whole thing wasn't explored properly. Why didn't the wife ask... "hey hubby, is this one with or without the sex stuff."

Well, the real reason is for audience identification. We feel emotions, so if the AIs are to be sympathetic and comprehensible to us, they need to as well. (For all that TNG bought into the conceit that Data had no emotions, it was always pretty obvious that he did, even if they weren't as intense as the human kind. He had hopes and regrets and affinities and dislikes, even if he didn't cry or laugh.)

But there is a valid explanation for it, which is that you can't really separate emotion from conscious thought. Emotion means motivation. They're both from a root meaning "to move." Our emotions are what motivate us. They're our impetus to act and to react. Any mind capable of more than following rigid programming, any mind capable of making choices, needs a reason to favor one choice over another and an incentive to make any choice at all. That's the role emotion plays. It's intimately tied to self-awareness too, because our emotions tell us about our own mental state. They tell us how we are reacting to things or what we're motivated to do. If you know that your situation is affecting your mental state in a negative way, then you know that you feel bad. If you know that your cognitive processes are compelling you to obtain something, then you know that you feel desire. And so on. Feeling is not separate from thinking, it's another layer of thinking.

I see no reason why a life-form couldn't easily exist without emotion. Depends on how you define emotion. Does a fly have emotions because it wants food and sex or is it simply following programming?

I'm really hoping that the BBC version ends up on Netflix or the like. I have a sneaking suspicion that quite a bit of material never made it to broadcast here in the US due to trimming for content and also creating commercial time space. Anyone know what the BBC run time was vs. US run time (say 42 minutes)?

Channel 4.
 
And if all synths have sex protocols then why be surprised if those protocols are accessed? That's what they're there for. I don't buy that a culture that churns out sex-bots is... shock horror.. appalled when they get used for sex. There's something disingenuous about that. The culture would either be appalled at synths having sex protocols (and therefore demand synths without genitalia) or the culture would accept that synths are sex toys (and therefore lack any judgement). The whole thing wasn't explored properly. Why didn't the wife ask... "hey hubby, is this one with or without the sex stuff."

Actually it was established that Laura was uneasy with synths and not very familiar with them. And she had no say in the buying decision. So she probably didn't even realize that "Anita" came with an "Adult Options" package.

As for why Joe bought a synth that included those options, that's just consumer culture for you. How many men get talked into buying sportscars with "sexy" extra features that they'll probably never use? It was part of the thematic point of the series, the way that there's a degree of exploitativeness built into the whole concept of humanoid synths. And it also reflected the tensions that existed between Joe and Laura. He was tempted enough by the possibility of a sexbot that he got one with "Adult Options" included even if he convinced himself he wouldn't use them. And then it was inevitable that he would. That hypocrisy in his behavior was part of the point. You complain that it didn't make sense, but it wasn't supposed to. It was supposed to reflect the lack of intimacy and communication in the Hawkins's marriage as well as to reflect the exploitative consumerism of synth manufacture and marketing as a whole. It was meant to be problematic. This is a show about flawed characters in a flawed world.


I see no reason why a life-form couldn't easily exist without emotion. Depends on how you define emotion. Does a fly have emotions because it wants food and sex or is it simply following programming?

But we weren't talking about flies. I was addressing your specific question: "Why would the synths feel emotions just because they're sapient, self-aware beings?" You weren't asking about emotions in flies, you were asking about whether there was a reason to correlate emotion with self-awareness, and that's the question I answered.
 
As for why Joe bought a synth that included those options, that's just consumer culture for you. How many men get talked into buying sportscars with "sexy" extra features that they'll probably never use?

I don't think you can say the extras on a car and the "extras" on a synth are comparable. The analogy might work if cars came with an optional vagina-hole on the back seat. If such a car did exist and hubby bought one, wifey would raise three eyebrows. That whole aspect of the synths wasn't looked at in enough detail. We don't even know if there is such a thing as synths without sex protocols (but you would assume there are). We don't really know too much about the laws regarding synths (can very dodgy people buy child synths for example)? The whole sex protocols thing was too vague.

But we weren't talking about flies. I was addressing your specific question: "Why would the synths feel emotions just because they're sapient, self-aware beings?" You weren't asking about emotions in flies, you were asking about whether there was a reason to correlate emotion with self-awareness, and that's the question I answered.

Flies, robots... what's the difference? My point was that human emotion doesn't necessarily need to be present for life therefore it stands to reason that it doesn't necessarily need to be present for self-awareness. Too many sci-fi stories dealing with AI assume that they should go hand in hand which obviously makes story telling easier for sure but it's a little lazy to conflate them so often. Ex Machina did a good job of showing AI pretending to possess emotion when in fact, there was none.
 
Flies, robots... what's the difference?

Again: Your own question was specifically about "sapient, self-aware beings." So that was the question I answered. I don't know why you're suddenly moving the goalposts and making this about nonsapient beings, because you were the one who asked about sapient beings in the first place.



My point was that human emotion doesn't necessarily need to be present for life, therefore it stands to reason that it doesn't necessarily need to be present for self-awareness.

That doesn't make any sense, because not all life is self-aware, as you yourself pointed out. And since we're discussing a story about sentient robots, that means that, for the purposes of this discussion, not all self-aware entities are alive. So you're conflating two very different topics here.

Life is a biological process. Emotion and intelligence are both cognitive processes. That is the distinction.
 
Again: Your own question was specifically about "sapient, self-aware beings." So that was the question I answered. I don't know why you're suddenly moving the goalposts and making this about nonsapient beings, because you were the one who asked about sapient beings in the first place.

No, my question was about AI. If we can speculate that they can exist (as sci-fi often does) then why can't we speculate that they can exist without emotion? As far as I know, there are no examples of sapient, self-aware AI in existence so we explore the idea in fiction. That exploration can (and often does) get a little predictable though regarding how they will present themselves. I see no reason for that.

That doesn't make any sense, because not all life is self-aware, as you yourself pointed out. And since we're discussing a story about sentient robots, that means that, for the purposes of this discussion, not all self-aware entities are alive. So you're conflating two very different topics here.

Life is a biological process. Emotion and intelligence are both cognitive processes. That is the distinction.

Synthetic life isn't a biological process. Again, if we can speculate about their possible existence then we can speculate that they might not exist in exactly the same manner that we do. And until someone introduces me to a sapient, self-aware robot, I will continue to question the human-centric notion that they will inevitable be self-aware in the exact same way that humans are. Is it not possible that true AI might be self-aware in an entirely unique manner?
 
Again: Your own question was specifically about "sapient, self-aware beings."

No, my question was about AI.

I quoted you. Verbatim. "Sapient, self-aware beings" was your choice of words. I copied and pasted it from your own post. You cannot possibly say that is not what your question was about, when it was your own words that you yourself selected.

If you can't even agree that you said the thing you said, then there's no hope of this being a constructive conversation. Goodbye.
 
Again: Your own question was specifically about "sapient, self-aware beings."

No, my question was about AI.

I quoted you. Verbatim. "Sapient, self-aware beings" was your choice of words. I copied and pasted it from your own post. You cannot possibly say that is not what your question was about, when it was your own words that you yourself selected.

If you can't even agree that you said the thing you said, then there's no hope of this being a constructive conversation. Goodbye.

Yeah, but I was clearly talking about sapient, self-aware AI beings (in this case, synths). What else would I be talking about? The question was why would a synth (which is not human) feel emotions just because it is a self-aware sapient being. Here's the quote.

One issue I've always had with shows/films about AI is the way they very often conflate self-awareness with emotional awareness. Why would the synths feel emotions just because they're sapient, self-aware beings?

Seems fairly straight forward to me. The synth could be a sapient self-aware being without any need for it to also experience emotion. Why is it that me making this suggestion means it's not a constructive conversation anymore?
 
Huh, just noticed the second season started up already in the UK. And after all the edits made to the first season on AMC I think I'll definitely stick to watching the original versions this time.

And I gotta say, the first episode just reinforces my feeling that Humans is exploring the concept of AI in a much more interesting and fascinating way than Westworld is so far, and with much more engaging characters. Westworld obviously looks great but is so emotionally remote and layered with mythology that it's kinda hard to know what to focus on or care about.

And ultimately I just find characters like Mia and Niska a whole lot more interesting to watch, in their interactions with humans and how they try to act more robotic or more human as the situation requires and the way you're never really sure just what's going on behind those eyes of theirs...
 
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Just saw a promo for the show, which I thought had been cancelled. Season 1 almost compelled me to order a love doll.

:p

I might just watch.
 
They announced the second season back in late July (?) I think. I know it's now airing in the UK but won't be shown in the US until February, on AMC.
 
Just watched the third episode of season 2. Are we allowed to discuss spoilers for the first 3 episodes here?
 
I do like seeing Carrie-Anne Moss in another genre tv show. And unlike her Marvel character, this one could theoretically lead directly to The Matrix. Funny stuff, you could blame Trinity for the whole thing.

As for Niska, they're obviously leading us to think that Astrid is going to be what gets her to show a reaction. Which would be a very cliche thing to do, but incredibly appropriate for what she's trying to prove. (Even if it is her refusing to allow Astrid to see her for what she truly is.)
 
I won't go into details because spoilers but did anyone else think last night's episode was a bit odd in not making any reference to the cliffhanger at the end of last week's episode at all?
 
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