CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[OtherGene]

I don't believe for one moment that Mr Lanes "secret" crowdfunding was anything of the sort. I believe is was a bit of market research to see what financial opportunities were still available through supporters and sympathetic ears alike.

You know, anything rather than get an actual job.

 

[jespah]

Hai! We are live streaming and yeah, we'll talk Axa:
http://www.gandtshow.com/streaming/

You are welcome to join us, of course. <3

Thank you, as always, for your kind support.

 

[muCephi]

Back in April, @Lukas Kendall posted his prescient "Endgame" essay. Today, he followed it up with a new set of predictions, and an explanation for why this week's settlement talks fizzled. On AxaMonitor »

Mr. Kendall says he does not believe Axanar was a scheme to make a business. Personally, I think at some point it turned into one, as evidenced by the many statements last summer about building a media company and even marketing work to CBS. And the fact that Alec has so aggressively concealed the finances, business arrangements, and plans, while being exceedingly abusive to anyone, even donors, when they ask the slightest question just adds to the evidence that something more than simply being out of money is being concealed here.

I really suspect that as Alec has been to questioners, so he probably has been, even more so, in internal emails. And I would not be the least surprised if there were definitive statements of intent to work the donation process to extract a studio and then go back for more to make the film. I wonder in what context that supposed email "forget the fans, I'm in this for the studio", if the email exists, will show up.

 

[Noname Given]

Alec Peters said:
As we’ve stated from the beginning of this legal odyssey, we are willing to addresses the concerns plaintiffs raised with regard to the production of our Star Trek fan film as long as we are allowed to make sure the story of Garth of Izar, the Battle of Axanar and the Four Years’ War can be told in a way that meets the expectations set for thousands of fans and donors through our crowdfunding campaigns and award-winning, proof-of-concept production, Prelude to Axanar.

In the event we are not able to reach a negotiated accommodation with the plaintiffs, we are prepared to pursue our fair use argument through the courts in an attempt to clearly identify what we can and cannot do when we resume production of Axanar.

^^^
This case is going to Trial folks. I like how earlier in the week Alec claimed - "We're close to a settlement..." and I have to wonder exactly what made him believe C/P WILL EVER effectively give him permission to make/complete "Axanar". Doesn't he yet realize is that one of the main reasons he was sued was so he would NOT be able to make/complete "Axanar"?

The hilarious thing to me is just that Alec Peters can't seem to face reality. I'd say not allowing Alec Peters to make/complete "Axanar" is just as 'non-negotiable' for CBS/Paramount and the simple fact is: CBS/Paramount have the stronger case in all this and given recent events it's pretty obvious whatever actual fan support Alec Peters had is fading away fast.

I don't think Alec Peters is concerned about Axanar fans or Backers at this point (if he were, he'd take whatever settlement C/P offered ANG attempt to return donors some money off their original pledges).

The case remains what it has been since Alec Peters decided to fight the Star Trek IP holders request that Axanar close down and quit -- namely Alec peters ego can't stand to be told: "No, you CAN'T make Axanar (or sell Axanar merchandise and gain a financial benefit)...PERIOD!"

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

I don't believe for one moment that Mr Lanes "secret" crowdfunding was anything of the sort. I believe is was a bit of market research to see what financial opportunities were still available through supporters and sympathetic ears alike.

And that's the thing isn't it, that alarmingly long list which every time we turn around is 'a growing even longer' list of 'It's this' when it wasn't this 'before'…. and 'It's that' and later its learned –documented-- to be something else entirely. Over and over, year after year, we are being carefully taught by the defendant and many of those he surrounds himself with to mistrust everything from them at face value or just because they said so. Because it has been and continues to be documented time and time... and time again... that there has been so little here that has ever been, on face value, what it had appeared to be.

So when someone says:

I believe is was a bit of market research to see what financial opportunities were still available through supporters and sympathetic ears alike.

My first thought now is, 'huh, I hadn't thought of that. Let's see if that plays showing some merit.'

Given the defendant, who is always courting the public's attention, who is always talking talking talking, who courts other people's money, who courts the spotlight to keep it focused on him. Who had a fan group trolling the internet to keep track of who was being excessively outspoken against the defendant & the production, which is one of the creepiest thing I've ever heard. Given NDA requirements for refunds. Given financial transparency vs 'disclosure of finances would embarrass the defendant.' Given 'We looked around for the least expensive shipping company' vs the shipping company was the defendant's own company. Given the deleting of and blocking dissent vs 'I only get love from fans'. Given 'I've built two technology companies' vs what ARE the names of those two companies please. Given 'Elon Musk would have given me $100M but it was a crap deal so I turned it down' vs I need your money to make 'best trek ever written first independent ST movie ever made' & build a movie studio in Hollywood with the biggest green screen ever! Given the break-in by a hater fan vs no break-in, no police report, a person on the property who wasn't part of of the studio, not inside the building. Given 'A small -and secret- supposed 'group' of fan backers/investors who take over the rent & utilities and use it as a for-profit' vs 'I'm starting this crowdfund because he's running out of money and the rent & utilities still need to be paid'. … Given, Given, Given, etc., etc., etc. Page after page after page of this same kind of thing.

So with all the documented history of 'this whole thing' following right behind the history of the years previous I find my thoughts drifting to 'You know, a bit of disguised market research to see what financial opportunities were still available isn't out of their demonstrated ballpark is it. It may in fact not be that at all. But it certainly isn't out of the documented realm possibility given what's gone on previously and what continues to unfold.'

Because why? Only because the defendant and many of the friends and supporter/advocates he surrounds himself with keep up this long time documented demonstration of the pattern and proclivity for being duplicitous. Sometimes downright untrustworthy.

 

[muCephi]

^^^
This case is going to Trial folks.

The studios have his emails and unredacted financials. They have several key players who have spilled their guts with zest. They may even have the document he said he had ready in his files to make sublicenses for Trek property he admitted the IP holders wouldn't sublicense to him. Then there are all the podcasts and public statements. I doubt this will get past summary judgment. Defense will obviously argue that there is triable issue of fair use that can't be determined this way. But I suspect the evidence for willful violation will be so strong that this argument won't fly.

The hilarious thing to me is just that Alec Peters can't seem to face reality.

And what a loss for him; at one point he seemingly had JJ and Justin on his side, a golden ticket, and he STILL had to grab for more. He could have brokered a compromise favorable to him, reframed his entire history, been a hero to his donors, and maybe even have gotten JJ and Justin's personal support in production if he had just been willing to disappear his ego for a while and invite them to help make a space for him.

Even if their answer was abide by the guidelines, if he had personally turned fully to that he would have been doing it with their personal sanction and every resource would have been available to him given their blessing -- what industry professional would look at a chance to work on a JJ/Justin sanctioned project as a bad thing? Plenty of people have worked on things other than Trek and would be available under the guidelines.

They would have found a way to tell stories ongoing in the paradigm with all the wind at their back and no debris of mistakes attaching anymore. That's the most unbelievable aspect of this last year for me.

I suspect he may have had some help from his attorneys potential make-a-name set-a-precedent agenda with this one. Maybe in this regard they weren't as cost free as he thought.

I don't think Alec Peters is concerned about Axanar fans or Backers at this point (if he were, he'd take whatever settlement C/P offered ANG attempt to return donors some money off their original pledges).

I don't really think this was ever about doing something because fans want it. I think he may have been pleased that others wanted it too, but IMO it was done because he wants it. And thus the inability to put a refund option on the table. That, and as others have pointed out, his claim of escrow might be challenged by the burn rate.

The case remains what it has been since Alec Peters decided to fight the Star Trek IP holders request that Axanar close down and quit -- namely Alec peters ego can't stand to be told: "No, you CAN'T make Axanar (or sell Axanar merchandise and gain a financial benefit)...PERIOD!"

Which is why the Small Access logo grows more appropriate the more he fights this way.


Perhaps he is seeing this as his own battle of Axanar, and he is going to pewpew hundreds of opposing arguments out of the sky and be rescued by the great USS FairUse at the last minute and fan film virtue will wash away the studios like waves upon the firmament. I'd say good luck living the Star Trek life where the hero the cameras are upon always triumphs. Yes, good luck with that.

Or in the words of the immortal trio: row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

And what a loss for him; at one point he seemingly had JJ and Justin on his side, a golden ticket, and he STILL had to grab for more. He could have brokered a compromise favorable to him, reframed his entire history, been a hero to his donors, and maybe even have gotten JJ and Justin's personal support in production if he had just been willing to disappear his ego for a while and invite them to help make a space for him.

Even if their answer was abide by the guidelines, if he had personally turned fully to that he would have been doing it with their personal sanction and every resource would have been available to him given their blessing -- what industry professional would look at a chance to work on a JJ/Justin sanctioned project as a bad thing? Plenty of people have worked on things other than Trek and would be available under the guidelines.

They would have found a way to tell stories ongoing in the paradigm with all the wind at their back and no debris of mistakes attaching anymore. That's the most unbelievable aspect of this last year for me.

That was.... stirring.

I suspect he may have had some help from his attorneys potential make-a-name set-a-precedent agenda with this one. Maybe in this regard they weren't as cost free as he thought.

And saddening.

I don't really think this was ever about doing something because fans want it. I think he may have been pleased that others wanted it too, but IMO it was done because he wants it.

Agree

And thus the inability to put a refund option on the table. That, and as others have pointed out, his claim of escrow might be challenged by the burn rate.

Interesting

Which is why the Small Access logo grows more appropriate the more he fights this way.

I don't know what this means.

Perhaps he is seeing this as his own battle of Axanar, and he is going to pewpew hundreds of opposing arguments out of the sky and be rescued by the great USS FairUse at the last minute and fan film virtue will wash away the studios like waves upon the firmament. ........... living the Star Trek life where the hero the cameras are upon always triumphs. .......

Perhaps. Yes, perhaps you have captured it.

Or in the words of the immortal trio: row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream.

A gentle thought provoking ending to a fine commentary piece.

 

[Sgt_G]

As I've said before, it doesn't help his case at all when he has a lawyer who appears to not want a settlement but rather appears to want to re-write copyright law with a win or partial-win in court. She can't do that with a settlement.

 

[carlosp]

As I've said before, it doesn't help his case at all when he has a lawyer who appears to not want a settlement but rather appears to want to re-write copyright law with a win or partial-win in court. She can't do that with a settlement.

While that is true, Winston is ethically obligated to seek the best outcome for their client first not for themselves, otherwise they leave themselves open for a malpractice suit. Our esteemed @oswriter has laid bets that Peters will indeed pursue this course of action.

 

[oswriter]

While that is true, Winston is ethically obligated to seek the best outcome for their client first not for themselves, otherwise they leave themselves open for a malpractice suit. Our esteemed @oswriter has laid bets that Peters will indeed pursue this course of action.

Well, I was half-kidding about that.

In the worst case (for AP) scenario where there's a summary judgment for C/P and a large award of statutory damages, I certainly could see him filing a malpractice lawsuit alleging what @Sgt_G suggests, i.e. that the attorney pushed him to fight a meritless case in the hopes of rewriting copyright law. But I don't think such a claim would have any more merit than his defense in the present litigation.

The problem, as usual, is that AP's incessant need to hear himself talk would be used against him. He's made plenty of public statements supporting the "fair use" defense strategy. It's not like he's kept his mouth shut and let W&S do all the talking. Actually, now that I think about it, that's probably why they've let him keep talking--it's an extra form of malpractice insurance.

But as I've also said before, I do think there's a method to AP's madness. He knows he's likely to lose on summary judgment. There's no guarantee W&S will represent him on appeal. He needs a new host body, and his only hope is to lure some libertarian or copyright reform group to his side. And I actually think he has a decent shot at finding one.

 

[urbandefault]

There's no guarantee W&S will represent him on appeal.

Wasn't it stated somewhere that W&S will not be carrying on in appeal?

 

[carlosp]

Wasn't it stated somewhere that W&S will not be carrying on in appeal?

No that's never been stated. Peters has been talking for weeks about how the appeals court is where he expects this to be resolved.

 

[muCephi]

I don't know what this means.

Thanks.

re your question, see this post: http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/cbs-paramount-sues-to-stop-axanar.278077/page-1279#post-11814157

 

[muCephi]

... He needs a new host body, and his only hope is to lure some libertarian or copyright reform group to his side. And I actually think he has a decent shot at finding one.

http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/parasitism_and_symbiosis

 

[Squiggy]

While that is true, Winston is ethically obligated to seek the best outcome for their client first not for themselves, otherwise they leave themselves open for a malpractice suit. Our esteemed @oswriter has laid bets that Peters will indeed pursue this course of action.

Us Realtors have the same ethical code. It's also why we rank near Congress and Lawyers in terms of approval.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Geez, this thead is 1282 pages long as I type this; I have to say, William Shatner's admonition to "Get a Life" has never been more relevant. Worse than a Yahoo News conversation about the 2016 election. How many of you guys even have a horse in this race? OK, my first and last post to this thread, and I'm done. Carry on.

 

[jespah]

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

Geez, this thead is 1282 pages long as I type this; I have to say, William Shatner's admonition to "Get a Life" has never been more relevant. Worse than a Yahoo News conversation about the 2016 election. How many of you guys even have a horse in this race? OK, my first and last post to this thread, and I'm done. Carry on.

I see your POV. Well, for me this thread is a on-going conversation. It is something that concerns a small part of my life which is Star Trek. It is something that concerns a smaller part of my life which is fan films. It is something that concerns a small part of my 'world' since I have been a low end multiple time donor to a couple of productions, and specifically this one that's in discussion.

Then, at least for me, the conversation got really complicated while I peeled back layer after layer, finding more layers that were relevant to those things I mentioned above. Bringing up more question like 'how does this work?' 'what does this mean?' 'what is this legal paper about this other case saying?' Trying to make sense of what I'm finding.

It's been interesting to me to learn about copyright. About the legal system. About lawyers and lawsuits and plaintiffs and defendants.

I think for me 'this whole thing' became more impact-fully interesting because I had just been on the ride, meaning the casually watching the fan films I like, a couple I donate to, never concerned with what, why, how. Just pull up YouTube and watch.

I was on another message board the day after this lawsuit landed and found myself turning (metaphorically) round and round going what's going on here?!

And when I started looking I was taken aback at what there was to know, at what there was to learn. At the impact of what was happening, the things I was discovering, how things work, how all we actors in this bit of history ... respond. '

So this discussion has allowed me to ask questions about where I can research for myself. Discuss what I've found. Been corrected when my information needed to be revisited. You know, a conversation.

Now 'this whole thing' is moving slow --- with its motions, and findings, and budgets, legal things -- and well, this isn't a static conversation always rehashing the same thing. We do rehash stuff. Sometimes with newer information to incorporate.

But this isn't a ST thread like a thread on, say, Voyager, where there's an episode, I watch it, it ends, I talk about it, talk about a character, discuss the story, move on.

By contrast this thread is a conversation with new pieces of the puzzle added piece by piece as the weeks and months roll on. I'll grant you some things happen fast and furiously, one after another, like the last few days have seen. And others bits are dribbled out by the weeks. A hurry up/wait kind of thing.

I suppose I have a stake in 'this whole thing' emotionally because it is effecting something I care about. Maybe for good or ill. The franchise I adore. And some productions I've now come to really care for. And care for their well being.

So, I know, I know, given first look it appears to be merely a great big giant ST message board Thread. Though a big difference I recognize is that this thread is discussing a part of ST history that is in play-- as it's being played out in Real Time-- which may effect sizable consequences to a franchise I adore.

Plus I'm learning so much. About people, about Internet media outlets: how they write, why they write, who has facts I trust. Old media outlets, about the fan film culture, about movie and TV studios, about the legal system, ABOUT HOW TO DO SOME IN-DEPTH RESEARCH USING ONLY GOOGLE!!!!!

What I guess I'm saying is that for me this thread is unique. In its scope of information covered. What I get out of it, which is learn learn learn. And its discussion of a segment in my own history of my Life as it's playing out.

 

[Firebird]

Geez, this thead is 1282 pages long as I type this; I have to say, William Shatner's admonition to "Get a Life" has never been more relevant. Worse than a Yahoo News conversation about the 2016 election. How many of you guys even have a horse in this race? OK, my first and last post to this thread, and I'm done. Carry on.

And you wasted your time to post this and preach from your high horse? If you don't have anything to add to the considerable legal discussions that have been going on in this thread, perhaps I could suggest you peruse other sections of the forum. Surely, that would be a much more worthy use of your apparently quite valuable time.

 

[Red Shirt]

Mr. Kendall says he does not believe Axanar was a scheme to make a business. Personally, I think at some point it turned into one, as evidenced by the many statements last summer about building a media company and even marketing work to CBS. And the fact that Alec has so aggressively concealed the finances, business arrangements, and plans, while being exceedingly abusive to anyone, even donors, when they ask the slightest question just adds to the evidence that something more than simply being out of money is being concealed here.

I really suspect that as Alec has been to questioners, so he probably has been, even more so, in internal emails. And I would not be the least surprised if there were definitive statements of intent to work the donation process to extract a studio and then go back for more to make the film. I wonder in what context that supposed email "forget the fans, I'm in this for the studio", if the email exists, will show up.

From the Axanar section 31 podcast you brought to everyone's attention, AP said his intention was to create a guild level Hollywood studio. Didn't AP state his Axanar film was going to be his calling card to the industry? It seems to me AP had an agenda once the cash started flowing in that went far beyond just making a fan film which is why I don't buy into his recent ah shucks mission creep deflection.