To me the problem with Pulaski is that the writers made her a foil to the wrong character--she should have been Picard's. She is somewhat (especially in Unnatural Selection)but not enough. Picard is definitely the psychological Ego of that series. Pulaski's more practical, compassionate character makes for a sharp contrast with Picard's more dispassionate, rational methods of conducting things. Frankly, you needed someone like her to take Picard from his abstract thinking and remind him of the humanoid equation. Imagine if she had been in "Homeward " and the passionate(correct) arguments she would have made for saving those people. Ah! What she could have been if is she had been used properly.
Pulaski's treatment of Data.
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Yes! This, 100 fold. All of the things that ultimately sour me on TNG could have been solved with the simple move of using Pulaski correctly to balance points of view, play devils advocate and bring a sense of ground level humanity to the arguments. Her as a counter point to Picard throughout the rest of the series could have been fantastic.
That....would be awkward.
Would her behaviour have been permissible if they were doing it?
1. If he gets to see her boobs, then he has to put up with her personality.
2. It was all misdirection, so that no one would suspect how often they went down on each other every day.
3. Kate was trying to talk herself out of going back for more Android loving by endlessly listing his failures as a sentient being.
4. What we saw was pure foreplay. She liked to give it, and he liked to take it, so they were perfect together. He almost followed the woman when she was asked to leave the Enterprise.
5. Kate Pulaski is a bitter blackout drunk. First time we met her she was getting drunk in a bar with a pregnant lady. Once she almost sobers up by 9 am, Pulaski may not even remember that she has a standing visitation from a pale gentleman caller near 1 am, most nights.
1. If he gets to see her boobs, then he has to put up with her personality.
2. It was all misdirection, so that no one would suspect how often they went down on each other every day.
3. Kate was trying to talk herself out of going back for more Android loving by endlessly listing his failures as a sentient being.
4. What we saw was pure foreplay. She liked to give it, and he liked to take it, so they were perfect together. He almost followed the woman when she was asked to leave the Enterprise.
5. Kate Pulaski is a bitter blackout drunk. First time we met her she was getting drunk in a bar with a pregnant lady. Once she almost sobers up by 9 am, Pulaski may not even remember that she has a standing visitation from a pale gentleman caller near 1 am, most nights.
McCoy comes across as red neck, racist to me. Took me a while to warm up to the character. But still if he acted the same way in a modern day military, racial abusing folks, would that be considered comic relief?
Are Vulcans exempt from political correct speech?
If you can't hurt their feelings, what's the point of being especially sensitive to their nonexistent feelings about their limitations, differences and foibles?
McCoy was an ass to every other species too, so it's not like I'm justifying him even a little bit.
If you can't hurt their feelings, what's the point of being especially sensitive to their nonexistent feelings about their limitations, differences and foibles?
McCoy was an ass to every other species too, so it's not like I'm justifying him even a little bit.
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^ So TOS McCoy is a racist xenophobe from Georgia. Talk about him fitting a stereotype lol
Or this little guy:
Let us not forget that Spock did just as much trolling as McCoy. How many times does Spock pop off with a more well put "humans suck"? It was a good dynamic and thankfully the actors were good enough to show that they had a real affection for each other beyond all of the bickering.
They also both went over the line at times, you can't just put it all on McCoy.
Each one picks on the other's people group (or in Spock's case, dominant heritage - the one he expresses most often) in an attempt to understand why the other is like that. It's a debate; your point, my counterpoint, your rebuttal, and so on. Each wants to spur the other on to a defense of their group. They gain greater understanding and mutual respect and admiration that way. If the road to friendship is paved with criticism and confusion...
Well said, not to mention the fact that judging McCoy as a "red neck from Georgia" represents an overly contemporary out of hand dismissal of people from the South. McCoy and Spock in truth are the greatest of friends, sniping and all, because they understand, accept, and accordingly dismiss, one another's prejudices. Today's obsessive oversensitivity is more of an impediment to growth than anything else.
McCoy was Archie Bunker in Space.
We laughed because he was backward, not because we identify with racism.
Auto-racism is allowed mostly.
Spock is Human.
Spock is allowed to shit on humans.
...
Kate built her own posthumans in a lab.
Her life's work, the disaster that it was, was in direct competition to Soong.
If she thought Androids were "good enough" then she wouldn't have spent ten years creating her own new slave race.
Maybe Pulaski's attacks on Data, was ventilation about her own failures, compared to Soong's relative success.
Like in pottery class at night school.
Those on the lower end of the hierarchy, need to learn their place, or start slashing tires in the parking lot, to feel better about the fact that they are being shown up.
We laughed because he was backward, not because we identify with racism.
Auto-racism is allowed mostly.
Spock is Human.
Spock is allowed to shit on humans.
...
Kate built her own posthumans in a lab.
Her life's work, the disaster that it was, was in direct competition to Soong.
If she thought Androids were "good enough" then she wouldn't have spent ten years creating her own new slave race.
Maybe Pulaski's attacks on Data, was ventilation about her own failures, compared to Soong's relative success.
Like in pottery class at night school.
Those on the lower end of the hierarchy, need to learn their place, or start slashing tires in the parking lot, to feel better about the fact that they are being shown up.
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I believe Spock's response to McCoy was just that 'responses'. Spock calls out human behavior for his arguments based on factual accounts, being violent, barbaric etc McCoy disrespects Spock's physical features. It is not a fault to be greenblooded or pointy eared, one never hears Spock called McCoy 'an illogical pink skinned so and so'. If a colleague wanted to start a friendship with me, calling out my racial features is not going to aid him or her. And you can bet I would give as good as I got in return.
Although Mr. Spock never criticized human physical traits, he was very quick to point out what he saw as emotional and psychological failings that are genetically inherent to humans just like pink skin and rounded ears. I honestly don't believe the intention was to show McCoy as a racist xenophobe, but to establish a good natured friendship with standard ribbing between two equals. Hard to understand for some, especially in a time when all people are trained to be offended at anything possible.
Why is it that we're only allowed to pick on our own groups without being called out on it? Isn't that a kind of discrimination?
Treat others as you would want to be treated - with kindness and respect. Some people do enjoy being teased - they can laugh at (or in Spock's case, meditate on) others' criticism and become better/stronger because of it. Or just have a good time.
The episode were Spock meets Zarabeth, Spock freed from the constraints of logic called McCoy out on his insults, told him he did not like them them and never did. No TOS Spock did not see its has a game. Perhaps later in life he decided if you cannot stop the insults you might as well return them.
He also threw soup at Christine when he was suffering from pon farr, regretting it later. Sick and troubled people say things they don't really mean, or take back.
Why is it that we're only allowed to pick on our own groups without being called out on it? Isn't that a kind of discrimination?
Treat others as you would want to be treated - with kindness and respect. Some people do enjoy being teased - they can laugh at (or in Spock's case, meditate on) others' criticism and become better/stronger because of it. Or just have a good time.
I generally follow the advice of Captains. I respect your conclusion Captain, and agree to your sentiments.
Accusations of racism here are kind of disturbing because I'm sure most viewers in real life (and most of the characters on the shows too, but correct me if I'm wrong) who feel that Data or the Doctor should be treated as objects are saying that they don't think or feel; they are NOT saying that it's okay to treat people who DO think and feel as objects. It doesn't make any sense that you should treat someone the same as you because they're different on some fundamental level. Surely, when we say that a White Frenchman should be treated the same as a Black Congolese, it's because they are the same - they both are conscious, both think, feel, and suffer.
People are saying that Data is different, and that he does not think, feel or suffer. We do not treat a laptop the same way we treat a Congolese man, because those two things are fundamentally different. Almost nobody is saying "Even if Data has a mind just like a human, we should be mean to him", which WOULD be a form of bigotry comparable to or analogous with racism, even if not exactly the same thing.
So is Data more like the Congolese man, in which case he would deserve to be treated with the same respect as a sapient human being, or is he more like the laptop (or rather, an extremely sophisticated and advanced version thereof)? I think that the show wants us to accept, on an emotional level, that Data is like a person. They don't actually give any firm, logical evidence of this, so believing that he might just be an approximation of consciousness rather than the real thing surely isn't as bad as being racist.
Now, all that being said, I believe that the mind and consciousness are physical phenomena rooted to the workings of the brain. I also believe that this being the case, it should technically be possible to produce something that qualifies as a mind out of materials other than organic biomatter. I further accept as part of the premise of the show that Dr. Soong has done this very thing and produced a mind via the mysterious positronic brain, whose properties are of course never fully explained on the show. However, if someone else DIDN'T believe any of those things, that wouldn't mean they were a racist. This is especially true if that someone is a fictional character on the show itself, and therefore doesn't know that "Data is the main character so of course we're supposed to accept that he has a bona fide mind; we wouldn't care about him otherwise".
People are saying that Data is different, and that he does not think, feel or suffer. We do not treat a laptop the same way we treat a Congolese man, because those two things are fundamentally different. Almost nobody is saying "Even if Data has a mind just like a human, we should be mean to him", which WOULD be a form of bigotry comparable to or analogous with racism, even if not exactly the same thing.
So is Data more like the Congolese man, in which case he would deserve to be treated with the same respect as a sapient human being, or is he more like the laptop (or rather, an extremely sophisticated and advanced version thereof)? I think that the show wants us to accept, on an emotional level, that Data is like a person. They don't actually give any firm, logical evidence of this, so believing that he might just be an approximation of consciousness rather than the real thing surely isn't as bad as being racist.
Now, all that being said, I believe that the mind and consciousness are physical phenomena rooted to the workings of the brain. I also believe that this being the case, it should technically be possible to produce something that qualifies as a mind out of materials other than organic biomatter. I further accept as part of the premise of the show that Dr. Soong has done this very thing and produced a mind via the mysterious positronic brain, whose properties are of course never fully explained on the show. However, if someone else DIDN'T believe any of those things, that wouldn't mean they were a racist. This is especially true if that someone is a fictional character on the show itself, and therefore doesn't know that "Data is the main character so of course we're supposed to accept that he has a bona fide mind; we wouldn't care about him otherwise".
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