Memory Alpha for starters. Along with all the people Captain of the USS Azerof just listed. That may not make it canon, but I think non-canon evidence ranks above no evidence at all.
Just use a "Connie"!
- Thread starter dswynne1
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What word? The entire problem is that the ship has never been referenced as "Daedalus" class. Not on TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT or any of the thirteen films. That's what canon is, what we see on screen. That way, we're all using the same frame of reference.
I think intent of the creators has to matter if we have a discussion like this about canon. If we׳re to believe that everything that is shown on screen and only what is shown on screen is canon without taking intent into consideration then we have a very strange and limited universe. Does anyone consider the boom mics that make it into the shot from time to time canon? Or when aliens' rubber foreheads start peeling off, is that a canonical feature of that race? Are we supposed to doubt anything implied by the show but not explicitly shown? Pretty much any form of media requires you to make assumptions about the world based on what is implied or evidenced by the media because there isn't time to explicitly state every single thing they want you to know in the story. So when they create a model specifically to represent the Daedalus class, use that model on the show and then tell you via word of god that it's the Daedalus class, it's obvious that they intend for you to know it's the Daedalus class and so it should be considered as such.
No one is saying you can't consider it "Daedalus" class (I actually do). But it isn't "canon", because nothing on-screen connects the name with the model.
How many of those someones wrote and produced any Star Trek TV shows or films? Not all sources are created equal. Even Okuda admits that his Encyclopedia is conjecture and not canon. And since Dennis actually worked on TNG as a writer, he might have more insight into the mechanics of these things than you or I.
Who's to say we're ever going to see a Constitution-class ship in DSC anyway?
Even if we do, it'll probably just be a two-three second bit in the pilot where we see one in the background at spacedock.
This argument is really pointless.
Even if we do, it'll probably just be a two-three second bit in the pilot where we see one in the background at spacedock.
This argument is really pointless.
Data does mention a Daedalus class during TNG, that it was decommissioned in 2196. We don't know what design he was refering to though as nothing is shown visually to identify it.
If I remember my encyclopedia correctly, it is right at the beginning.
Oh, I don't know, perhaps CBS!!!
I find it highly hypocritical when we reference him and his work for other things (e.g. the length of the JJprise) but we dismiss it a source when we don't agree with it. The same goes with startrek.com and Memory Alpha.
As you and I, of course. As opposed to Michael Okuda, Doug Drexler and Greg Jein though? Not really.
I am not saying that the Daedalus class is canon because all those sites, books and people say it.
All I'm saying is that all those sites, books and people have come to the same conclusion that the canon class name (spoken in TNG) and the canon model ship (shown in DS9) are connected.
If DSC shows us another Daedalus class I'll have zero problems accepting it as canon.
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Nope. They own the IP. The actual writing and producing was done by people not a corporation. The stuff on their site is just being regurgitated from other non-canon sources. Repetition doesn't make it canon.
I don't. My primary sources are visual and textual from the shows and movies. startrek.com and Memory Alpha are flawed sources IMO and are to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially MA which is fan created and edited.
I do. Because the writers and producers are the driving forces behind the shows. Take your "Botany Bay" example. The name is mentioned in the script and the model is identified by that name through dialog. The producers "signed off" on both. So that makes that ship design canon. The model seen in Sisko's office has never been stated on screen to be of the Daedalus class. The Daedalus class has never been seen on screen.
The name "Akira class" has never been mentioned or shown or referenced as such on screen "on TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT or any of the thirteen films". So according to your logic the "Akira" class name is not canon and the Akira ships belong to an unknown ship class.
Yes. You and I can choose to accept that designation for that type of ship, but that doesn't make it "canon".
George and Winona were long accepted as the names for Kirk's parents. The names weren't canon until Star Trek (2009). Hikaru was long accepted as Sulu's first name. The name wasn't canon until The Undiscovered Country.
What Bob said
Here's what Mike Okuda said in the Daedalus entry*:
A conjectural design for this class, based on an early design for the Enterprise created by Matt Jefferies and built by Greg Jein is pictured here. This model has been seen as a desktop display in Star Trek Deep Space Nine.
So Mike understands its not canon.
*Star Trek Encyclopedia First Edition 1994
Enterprise had an ECS cargo ship called Horizon, which had the "Chicago Mobs of the 20's" book as set decoration. I'd take that over earlier conjecture that Horizon was Daedalus-class.
Well again, in the Enterprise novels, it is literally Travis' parents ship that visits and drops off the book. Which is acutally in Travis' quarters (a replica of the original TOS prop) in the episode he goes back to visit, his family left his copy behind.
The Horizon is the first victim of the Romulan telepresence capture system as it leaves the planet, remotely piloted by the Romulans into the systems star, not before the Mayweathers use some reserve power to access an old radio antenna the teleprescence system considers too old to bother disabling.
Didn't the book have the wrong name though?
Gangs rather than Mobs.
If the model had been labeled "USS Essex", then that coupled with what we learn in "Power Play" would make the sphere hulled vessel on Sisko's desk, a Daedalus class in canon. Right now, all we have are exterior sources that connect the two. Not a problem to accept that source, but it still wouldn't be canon.
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