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Doctor Observation

W... why would you think the Doctor was incapable of lying? He did it frequently...

The only race on the show that proclaims to be unable to lie are the Vulcans, and bad news on that front...
 
Funny thing is ... you could have Bones from TOS operating on you, in the holodeck, if you wanted. I never really got the dependence of the EMH, specifically.
:shrug:
I always wondered why, when they successfully recreated that Cardassian Nazi doctor character to help the doctor, and how La Forge made Leah engineer person why they couldn't just have a holodeck doctor.

Computer, make an enemy worthy of beating Data.

Computer, make a doctor with the personality of someone less pervy. (H/T to Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME, some good reflections!)
 
:shrug:
I always wondered why, when they successfully recreated that Cardassian Nazi doctor character to help the doctor, and how La Forge made Leah engineer person why they couldn't just have a holodeck doctor.

Computer, make an enemy worthy of beating Data.

Computer, make a doctor with the personality of someone less pervy. (H/T to Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME, some good reflections!)


Why is it important to have a holographic doctor with a perfect personality? Where is the drama?
 
The computer can't just create a doctor out of nothing. The hologram would need programming to know how to respond to medical issues. That's why the EMH was a remarkable program, because it had the knowledge programmed into it to be an actual doctor.

As for personality. Part of the problem was that he was based on Lewis Zimmerman who didn't have a great personality himself. The other part was that since he wasn't meant to be a full time doctor, just something to be used in an emergency, the focus of his program was medical knowledge not personality.
 
Why is it important to have a holographic doctor with a perfect personality? Where is the drama?

So, to have a holographic doctor who like spending time in ogling (or even just dreaming of ogling) girls is not particularly offensive or even shocking for you? :wtf:

What the Doctor did about/with Seven (and maybe some others female crewmembers who came to see him for a consultation) is called "sexual misbehavior" and it's strictly forbidden, wherever the medical practice/procedure takes place, by the code of ethics made by the College of Physicians. I understood that even if he isn't a human pysician, his program includes a complete data of that code, which he knows very well to have quoted it to justify some of his actions: the duty of assistance (no matter the conditions); the doctor-patient privilege (=confidentiality); respect of life (Hyppocratic oath) ... and the dignity of the person* and of course; the ban to have sexual relations with the patient (if Seven had answered favorably his advances, he would not have hesitated a single second!).

* On this last point (for the record, the dignity of the person), he committed serious negligence like perving female crew members/holograms, the creation of a sexy and revealing catsuit, the conservation of nude portrait/pictures of the female patients in his database; the use of the Doctor-patient relationship - which is based on the "paternalistic model" - to seduce)

I guess that to show this side of the Doctor had for mission to entertain and amuse the viewers but I think seriously that the character didn't need this perverse aspect to be interesting and funny. But it's just an opinion! :whistle:
 
Maybe you can't copy the Doctor because he needs to be installed, like you would install from a CD-ROM. Yes, there are ways around it but if you just copied that program from one computer to another it wouldn't work. You'd have to re-install it on the other computer.

...of course that doesn't explain all the instances where the Doctor is moved rather than copied.
 
Seven had several character arcs. Tom and B'Elanna were way different in Endgame than they were in Caretaker. The Doctor would grow, then regress, then grow...then regress. They changed his personality around to suit the plot.
 
Maybe you can't copy the Doctor because he needs to be installed, like you would install from a CD-ROM. Yes, there are ways around it but if you just copied that program from one computer to another it wouldn't work. You'd have to re-install it on the other computer.

...of course that doesn't explain all the instances where the Doctor is moved rather than copied.
I think they've implied that his program is too large to just be copied.
 
Another thing which bugged me. We know that throughout the series, the holograms had no rights in the Federation. Indeed, they were created to assure certain works and at best, to assist the human beings. So,

1) even if Voyager's EMH, who eventually developed his own personality during the 7 years in DQ, why would the Federation should feel obliging to give him a particular status? We know that the arbitror of the Federation tribunal consulted just a few weeks or months before the return of Voyager on Earth, was unwilling to declare The Doctor a 'person' at the moment but, he recognized that the matter of holographic rights should soon have to be addressed properly ("Author, Author", 7x20) -> if the Federation works like the Administration and Justice of 20th & 21th centuries - whatever the countries -, our Doctor risks to have to wait for a VERY long time - if the project is not failed well before for lack of interest or because of its great risk for the Society and/or the security (imagine that all the holograms turn against their creators and get violent like in ??), - to obtain the recognition of his rights like those of others holograms, besides - to exist, to live and be respected like a full individual. If you have doubts, just look at the time which was necessary to impose the civil rights, the right of LBGT, the gender equality, etc...?! And even there, the concern continue!

2) isn't the infamous mobile ermitter of 29th century tech which is proudly wore by the Doctor, in violation of one of the principles of Federation, the temporal prime directive? That Janeway and her crew violated the principle of Prime Directive (standard and temporal) in several occasions to protect themselves could be understood by any commission of inquiry (even if its members will point them out!) : exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures BUT after returning home after 7 years, it will be return to the business as usual for Janeway and her crew, including the EMH. And in his case, I'm pretty sure that the Federation won't violate one of its own golden rules to allow him to keep his sentiency.
Likely outcome: the EMH should continue to exist with his current parameters* (it would be stupid to erase all improvements brought, especially as it could be useful) but his freedom of movement will be hindered, deprived of his little case...., until some brilliant engineers, such as B' Elena Torres, create a mobile ermitter of their century.

In both cases quoted, I don't think that the Federation and Starfleet just have that sort of humanity in them, no matter how much bitching Janeway will do to help Seven/Icheb and the Doctor to be inserted! Everybody is not as Janeway with her improved holo Doctor or Doctor Kate Pulaski with Data!

*As bright as he is, he got a temper, our Doctor! :lol: -> remember how Reginald Barclay was treated by his superiors officers and that, is the standard!
 
I hope your wrong-me loves the doctor-also the alternate timeline at the beginning of Voyager shows him with a name, freedom of movement, a spouse among other things.
 
I hope your wrong-me loves the doctor-also the alternate timeline at the beginning of Voyager shows him with a name, freedom of movement, a spouse among other things.

It seemed to me that the alternate timeline never existed since deleted by Admiral Janeway to allow her younger doppelhänger to go home decades earlier to avoid losing other crew members, like Seven & Chakotay?! :whistle:
Furthermore, what you made a reference, was supposed to take place in the year 2404 and we learnt during the episode that Voyager and her occupants have spent 23 years in the Delta Quadrant. I guess that during these 23 years, the Federation had plenty of time to deal with the legal recognition of holograms and their rights and did it, especially if the Doctor, with the support of Capt Janeway, maintained the pressure on the Federation tribunal across the time of communication that can be managed each day, when Voyager was still in Delta Quadrant.

Oh and I don't "like or dislike" the Doctor. His character has flaws/weaknesses like others but I just pointed that holograms are programs run by machines. It's what they are. No more, no less. Once power surge or accidental deletion, and there is no more EMH anyway. Sentient or legally recognized as an individual, he's still not - and NEVER will be a flesh and blood being,
(If the hologram is programed to react like a human, and the programming is good enough, of course it's going to seem like it is sentient. That is the point of the programming. Really good AI programming could surprise a person with its life-likeness if it's the first time the person has come in contact with it. That doesn't make it alive, however).
Plus, we still don't get how the human mind works. We still don't understand why we have morals or some innate personality characteristics. Then to lend these facets to a hologram or a robot seems ridiculous to me.

About the Doctor himself, at his simplest, he's an application used by the computer in order to complete the tasks needed of the Voyage crew. He was specifically created and designed to be a doctor, give bedside care, and learn in order to do a better and more efficient job in sickbay. The fact that his programming adjusted to apply to learning other things is not surprising as seeing as it seems that he was never programmed to learn specifically about medical procedures BUT to give him the possibility to reprogram, in order to evolve and to acquire his own personality seems to me dangerous! .
 
The only race on the show that proclaims to be unable to lie are the Vulcans, and bad news on that front...

Don't believe that to be true, Seven once asked Tuvok ( in Prey I think ) whether Vulcans were able to lie and Tuvok responded that they were, he personally had just never done so, unless under orders, as he didn't see the logic in it.
 
It seemed to me that the alternate timeline never existed since deleted by Admiral Janeway to allow her younger doppelhänger to go home decades earlier to avoid losing other crew members, like Seven & Chakotay?! :whistle:
Furthermore, what you made a reference, was supposed to take place in the year 2404 and we learnt during the episode that Voyager and her occupants have spent 23 years in the Delta Quadrant. I guess that during these 23 years, the Federation had plenty of time to deal with the legal recognition of holograms and their rights and did it, especially if the Doctor, with the support of Capt Janeway, maintained the pressure on the Federation tribunal across the time of communication that can be managed each day, when Voyager was still in Delta Quadrant.

Oh and I don't "like or dislike" the Doctor. His character has flaws/weaknesses like others but I just pointed that holograms are programs run by machines. It's what they are. No more, no less. Once power surge or accidental deletion, and there is no more EMH anyway. Sentient or legally recognized as an individual, he's still not - and NEVER will be a flesh and blood being,
(If the hologram is programed to react like a human, and the programming is good enough, of course it's going to seem like it is sentient. That is the point of the programming. Really good AI programming could surprise a person with its life-likeness if it's the first time the person has come in contact with it. That doesn't make it alive, however).
Plus, we still don't get how the human mind works. We still don't understand why we have morals or some innate personality characteristics. Then to lend these facets to a hologram or a robot seems ridiculous to me.

About the Doctor himself, at his simplest, he's an application used by the computer in order to complete the tasks needed of the Voyage crew. He was specifically created and designed to be a doctor, give bedside care, and learn in order to do a better and more efficient job in sickbay. The fact that his programming adjusted to apply to learning other things is not surprising as seeing as it seems that he was never programmed to learn specifically about medical procedures BUT to give him the possibility to reprogram, in order to evolve and to acquire his own personality seems to me dangerous! .
Then I'm going to guess you didn't appreciate or care for his character arc on Voyager did you?
 
Don't believe that to be true, Seven once asked Tuvok ( in Prey I think ) whether Vulcans were able to lie and Tuvok responded that they were, he personally had just never done so, unless under orders, as he didn't see the logic in it.

Makes you wonder how he infiltrated Chakotay's crew then...
 
Then I'm going to guess you didn't appreciate or care for his character arc on Voyager did you?

Even if the character was interesting and often funny, I find that from the season 5, he took a bigger - maybe too big - place in storylines/arcs and often at the instigation of the actor, Robert Picardo, himself, turning him sometimes, ridiculous or unlikeable but well, it seems that I am minority to think this of our Doctor who? :D Too bad! :whistle:
 
Because he was under orders to do so?

Extract of Caretaker:

[Bridge]

(Paris enters. Chakotay, Tuvok and Ayala beam in. That's three tall dark and handsome men.)
ROLLINS: Watch out, Captain. They're armed.
JANEWAY: Put down your weapons. You won't need those here. It's good to have you back, Mister Tuvok.
TUVOK: I must inform you that I was assigned to infiltrate your crew, sir. I am Captain Janeway's Chief of Security.
CHAKOTAY: Were you going to deliver us into their waiting hands, Vulcan?
TUVOK: My mission was to accumulate information on Maquis activities, and then deliver you into their waiting hands. That is correct.

I guess that I was assigned means = I was ordered, but well, it's Tuvok! :lol:.
 
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