Quick! If you hurry you might still catch the joke you missed!
Doctor Observation
- Thread starter Six of Twelve
- Start date
Quick! If you hurry you might still catch the joke you missed!
I was doing it a favor.
Part joke, part sarcasm. Besides, just because a law is draconian and useless doesn't mean it wouldn't be on the books 
Case in point, Star Trek TNG having to pay Arthur Conan Doyle's (Great?!?) grandkids if they wanted to use Sherlock Holmes in a holodeck episode. The man died in 1930 but 55 years later, copywrite laws are such that vague descendants can still hold a claim to his work. I'm all for protecting people's rights to profit from their ideas (and I do photography and writing myself--if only at an amateur level) but when work can be held hostage for 50 to 100 years after you die, THAT is a pointless rule. Joke, yes, but the way things are trending, I could see computer capabilities being crippled by politicians and corporate lobbyists to the point where the idea of copying is almost unthinkable--even as a holdover after money is abolished. (Realistically, copying should still be feasable for a ship full of engineers, but that's another story.)
Case in point, Star Trek TNG having to pay Arthur Conan Doyle's (Great?!?) grandkids if they wanted to use Sherlock Holmes in a holodeck episode. The man died in 1930 but 55 years later, copywrite laws are such that vague descendants can still hold a claim to his work. I'm all for protecting people's rights to profit from their ideas (and I do photography and writing myself--if only at an amateur level) but when work can be held hostage for 50 to 100 years after you die, THAT is a pointless rule. Joke, yes, but the way things are trending, I could see computer capabilities being crippled by politicians and corporate lobbyists to the point where the idea of copying is almost unthinkable--even as a holdover after money is abolished. (Realistically, copying should still be feasable for a ship full of engineers, but that's another story.)
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That would still be a copyright violation. It's kind of in the name of the law.
"Author, Author" shows us that copyright law (or intellectual property at least) is still in existence across the 24th Century Federation. And now extends to holograms. Great.
Sherlock Holmes, in general, is already in the public domain in the US. The last Conan Doyle story (Shoscombe Old Place) will be in the public domain in 2022. You can read more on the Conan Doyle/Sherlock Holmes copyright fiasco here - although that's all written by one of the parties involved, the Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate.
Neither of the disputed inheritors of the Sherlock Holmes copyright are in any way related or descended from Conan Doyle. They all purchased the rights to the Holmes copyright decades ago, because that's apparently a thing that exists.
Yes, for people like that, the copyright laws are nothing but a license to steal.
It may have been a storage issue, in-universe, as they seem to have to always be forced to "transfer" his program rather than copy it to a new location.
It certainly shouldn't be an issue of CPU power, since Voyager's main computer could easily run dozens or hundreds of holographic simulations of people on the holodeck itself (I'm thinking of the episode(s) where the Hirogen have converted Voyager into a training base).
I'm sure the actual real-world answer is that the plot required it, and the writers were computer-illiterate. Even still, perhaps there was some sort of unique "metadata" within his program that was the essence of his sentience, that was not able to be duplicated... his programmatical "soul" if you will.
It certainly shouldn't be an issue of CPU power, since Voyager's main computer could easily run dozens or hundreds of holographic simulations of people on the holodeck itself (I'm thinking of the episode(s) where the Hirogen have converted Voyager into a training base).
I'm sure the actual real-world answer is that the plot required it, and the writers were computer-illiterate. Even still, perhaps there was some sort of unique "metadata" within his program that was the essence of his sentience, that was not able to be duplicated... his programmatical "soul" if you will.
Nothing about the Doctor issue truly makes sense. I think the less we analyse it, the better. For instance a computer would normally run his program twice, sharing one database and that would resolve the problem of multiple surgeries done at the same time (triage) but as you said the writers are just computer illiterate twits and will never get that right.
Well, I guess we have to consider that when these episodes were written, computers were using floppy disks. And those old floppers held a very limited amount of data, so, the writers were stuck in this mindset.
yes
Well, maybe there is something about the doctor's "program" that WE don't understand. Voyager is supposed to be hundreds of years from now and by then computers and programs will have advanced far, far from what we know now. Perhaps quantum computer "programs" of the future are more than just simple lists of instructions meant to be carried out by a processor, and can't be simply "backed up" on the 24th century version of a floppy disk.
The storage medium is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you're talking about a 1970's data cassette storage the early 2000's CD, or today's modern flash memory, we're technically still storing exactly the same data exactly the same way. I'd have to assume the doctor's "program" isn't a collection of bits and bytes one could simply store on a million floppy disks.
Maybe quantum computer programs can't exist in two places at once.
I noted for awhile that even though he was a likable and funny hologram, the Doctor
shows how lubricious he can be, what for me, isn't a very enviable quality, especially when he goes too far, what he did often in S4 (Scorpion - Part Two : cf Seven's catsuit); Message in a Bottle : when the Doctor boasts to have had sexual relations in front of EMH Mark II), S5 (Blink of an Eye : when he is sent in mission and cannot refrain from making a kid to a met woman -> ok, he is supposed to have spent something like 2 years in 2 sec far from Voyager but come one). and later in S6/7 when he tries to use the relationship mentor/student to get Seven in his arms and/or paints her nude body....
I was surprised to see that nobody, especially Janeway, reacting to make that the know obsession stop.
-> in fact, I feel that although the Capitain Janeway refused to recognize him as an "indiividual" hologram (=sentient) in first seasons, she let him acquire his individuality (like Seven), in offering him a lot of liberties - maybe too much (not surprising that he always asked for more: requesting to be ECH; resigning from his doctor"s role to become an opera singer -> would he suddenly have forgotten why he was put into service at the beginning?!) - at the point that the Doctor crossed often the red line (playing an author of holo novels and offending his friends in passing or better, holding a detailed narrative of the decision-making taken by Janeway, which he estimated to be errors) without assuming the blame for his actions. Of course he saved lives on board but he also committed errors of judgment which put in danger the vessel and the crew.
Btw, Picardo was excellent in this role but alas, his character wasn't so nice.
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shows how lubricious he can be, what for me, isn't a very enviable quality, especially when he goes too far, what he did often in S4 (Scorpion - Part Two : cf Seven's catsuit); Message in a Bottle : when the Doctor boasts to have had sexual relations in front of EMH Mark II), S5 (Blink of an Eye : when he is sent in mission and cannot refrain from making a kid to a met woman -> ok, he is supposed to have spent something like 2 years in 2 sec far from Voyager but come one). and later in S6/7 when he tries to use the relationship mentor/student to get Seven in his arms and/or paints her nude body....
I was surprised to see that nobody, especially Janeway, reacting to make that the know obsession stop.
-> in fact, I feel that although the Capitain Janeway refused to recognize him as an "indiividual" hologram (=sentient) in first seasons, she let him acquire his individuality (like Seven), in offering him a lot of liberties - maybe too much (not surprising that he always asked for more: requesting to be ECH; resigning from his doctor"s role to become an opera singer -> would he suddenly have forgotten why he was put into service at the beginning?!) - at the point that the Doctor crossed often the red line (playing an author of holo novels and offending his friends in passing or better, holding a detailed narrative of the decision-making taken by Janeway, which he estimated to be errors) without assuming the blame for his actions. Of course he saved lives on board but he also committed errors of judgment which put in danger the vessel and the crew.
Btw, Picardo was excellent in this role but alas, his character wasn't so nice.
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You seem to have a lot of sexuality hangups. One thing though.. I do not think it's possible for a hologram to "make a kid" with a "met" woman.
Sorry to disappoint you but no, I don't have a lot of sexuality hangups! I just mention factual situations even if it's about a fiction. 
(of course, it's a dream but well...)
About the Doctor's"met" girl", you were right, in fact, his girlfriend of 3 years (and not 2) was a roommate named Mareeza and yes, he had a son with her. Watch again "Blink of an Eye",
---------------------
EMH: From the moment our ship arrived in the sky, they've been trying to make contact. Our presence has encouraged invention, religion, science, art even children's toys. They're all variations on a single theme, Voyager. Mareeza even composed an aria based on the Sky Ship. I sang the lyric.
JANEWAY: Mareeza?
EMH: She was my roommate. Three years is a long time, Captain. One needs companionship.
JANEWAY: You'll get no argument from me. But did you learn anything that might help us break orbit?
and later, when he talked with Gotana-Retz.
EMH: It was a pleasure to treat a fellow citizen. Would you do me a favour? Find out what happened to a boy named Jason Tabreez. He lived in the Central Protectorate.
GOTANA-RETZ: Jason? An unusual name.
EMH: Yes. He was my son.
GOTANA-RETZ: But you're a hologram.
EMH: It's a long story. He's dead by now, but perhaps you could discover what happened to him. Maybe he had children or grandchildren. You could tell them about me.
(I will be curious to know how he had a son while being a hologram!
)
M
marlboro
Guest
The EMH hesitates before he says "son" in that scene. I always inferred that the boy was a stepson or was adopted.
I hate that bit of dialog. The Doc casually mentions being married and having a family for a couple of years, and then it's immediately dropped and never mentioned again? Terrible.
Still a good episode though.
I hate that bit of dialog. The Doc casually mentions being married and having a family for a couple of years, and then it's immediately dropped and never mentioned again? Terrible.
Still a good episode though.
If the Doctor was "nice", he would boring.
More seriously, the episode "Author, Author" (7x20) about the Doctor's legal rights was just surreaslistic if not stupid IMHO.
I mean, the Doctor (like Data in TNG, who is a machine provided with a artificial intelligence and having a human shape) is just a hologram or rather a program - based on a character who is flesh and blood, Dr Lewis Zimmerman -, was created to be a temporary relief or assistant. That the program benefited from improvements from Torres/Kim to function for much longer than his intended duration and a larger useful database in science (more medical techniques, more knowledge in species, etc...), was perfectly alright but seriously, which need to introduce other totally pointless parameters such as techniques of singing/writing, a mode of emergency command, etc... .
-> I know that a lot of people idolize this character but for me, the Doctor became as the seasons went, a clown more than a doctor. That he likes the music or to read / write novels, in a pinch (the medicine is a shape of art at times, especially when it becomes restorative) but there, we have a character who wants to live several lives in the same time, what is just ridiculous!
In fact, The Doctor and Data are not life-forms just computerized things (which could be shut down to save energy when absolutely necessary, could undergo damages in the point not to work normally anymore or worst, could be reprogrammed partially or totally by devil people like in Equinox -> just in changing a few parameters, Ransom's Chief Engineer, Maxwell Burke, transformed the Doctor in a Mr Hyde!). So, how can we give rights to them? They were created to help to do things that human beings cannot do themselves. Nothing more.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that we owe abuse of them unless to want to live in a world completely dehumanized and/or desocialised.
I notice that, in scifi, it's common to see stories/scenarios where clones, droids and/or, machines try to take the influence on their creators to exist by themselves but in the end, It is always the same conclusion: or they reach very quickly their limits and eventually self-destruct or they are destroyed by the man (often their own creators,besides) because they became uncontrollable in the point to become dangerous for people.
I mean, the Doctor (like Data in TNG, who is a machine provided with a artificial intelligence and having a human shape) is just a hologram or rather a program - based on a character who is flesh and blood, Dr Lewis Zimmerman -, was created to be a temporary relief or assistant. That the program benefited from improvements from Torres/Kim to function for much longer than his intended duration and a larger useful database in science (more medical techniques, more knowledge in species, etc...), was perfectly alright but seriously, which need to introduce other totally pointless parameters such as techniques of singing/writing, a mode of emergency command, etc... .
-> I know that a lot of people idolize this character but for me, the Doctor became as the seasons went, a clown more than a doctor. That he likes the music or to read / write novels, in a pinch (the medicine is a shape of art at times, especially when it becomes restorative) but there, we have a character who wants to live several lives in the same time, what is just ridiculous!
In fact, The Doctor and Data are not life-forms just computerized things (which could be shut down to save energy when absolutely necessary, could undergo damages in the point not to work normally anymore or worst, could be reprogrammed partially or totally by devil people like in Equinox -> just in changing a few parameters, Ransom's Chief Engineer, Maxwell Burke, transformed the Doctor in a Mr Hyde!). So, how can we give rights to them? They were created to help to do things that human beings cannot do themselves. Nothing more.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that we owe abuse of them unless to want to live in a world completely dehumanized and/or desocialised.
I notice that, in scifi, it's common to see stories/scenarios where clones, droids and/or, machines try to take the influence on their creators to exist by themselves but in the end, It is always the same conclusion: or they reach very quickly their limits and eventually self-destruct or they are destroyed by the man (often their own creators,besides) because they became uncontrollable in the point to become dangerous for people.
Do you think that the Doctor was able to lie? I can't stop thinking to Seska's baby here and I wondered if he didn't give a white lie* to Seska (so, she couldn't hold it over the 1st Officer & the Capitain) in affirming that the baby boy wasn't Chakotay's child. I mean, look at the baby, the little one looked like SO human even although he inherited of the excrescence on the face of the front like of his mother, who is Cardassian, while his supposed father, Culean, is Kazon) -> Miral Paris inherited of her mother klingon side but the father is 100% human and Naomie Wildeman took on her father's Ktarian heritage but his mother is 100% human. Surprising!
* Tuvok did, to protect his Capitain so, why not the Doctor?!
Seska's baby:
* Tuvok did, to protect his Capitain so, why not the Doctor?!
Seska's baby:
The only observation to be made on the Doctor is that he made Voyager a Trek series worth watching(along with 7 of 9)
Sorry to disagree but for me, Janeway, Seven and the Doctor (minus his pervert/lubricious side) made Voyager worth watching.
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