In A Mirror, Darkly

[locutus101]

Maybe Mirror Universe Daniels gave the Terrans an upper hand

If he's stupid. Regular Daniels made the mistake of removing Archer from his time and it made his whole world turn to ruins. If MU Daniels does anything like that it'll have the same effect on his world.

 

[REDrake]

It is likely that MU Daniels doesn't even exists. After all, I don't think DTI was ever mentioned in the MU.

OTOH, it is just as likely that after Cochrane and his goons captured the Vulcan ship they also got their hands on some Vulcan engineer and made him talk. All that talk from Archer about Vulcans having arrived with a fleet to conquer Earth sounds like something made up to justify the conquest of Vulcan (although, why would Mandate Destiny Terran Empire would need to justify its actions eludes me).

 

[eyeresist]

It is likely that MU Daniels doesn't even exists. After all, I don't think DTI was ever mentioned in the MU.

Everyone in the prime universe has a mirror counterpart, so there would be a mirror Daniels. We haven't seen time travel within the MU, so the issue of time cops never came up.

All that talk from Archer about Vulcans having arrived with a fleet to conquer Earth sounds like something made up to justify the conquest of Vulcan

Well, yeah, obviously.

although, why would Mandate Destiny Terran Empire would need to justify its actions eludes me.

Totalitarian and fascist governments always portray their enemies as being morally in the wrong. However awful they may be, they never say "We are the bad guys".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Everyone in the prime universe has a mirror counterpart

Not everyone.

Jake Sisko, for example. In the MU, he was never born.

 

[eyeresist]

The exception that proves the rule! As we've seen parallel versions of characters in different centuries, the reproduction dyads must be parallel too. If Jake only exists in one universe, perhaps this is because he never has children?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It was stated clearly that in the MU, Ben and Jennifer broke up before they ever had children. That's why there is no Jake there.

 

[eyeresist]

I'm saying that because Jake does not go on to have kids in the Prime universe, there is no need for a Mirror Jake. If Jake did have kids, they would have MU doppelgangers*, which would require the existence of a Mirror Jake who also had kids. If parallel reproduction didn't exist, then the whole Mirror Universe phenomenon would quickly fall apart, if its existence was even possible in the first place.
(* Jake's kids would not have doppelgangers if they did not themselves reproduce.)

A broader explanation:
For the Prime and Mirror universes to be parallel (parallel planets, societies, individuals), despite infinite possibilities for divergence, it would require either the intervention of some intelligence, or else be the function of a natural law. In either case, we can theorise that, when individuals don't have duplicates in the other universe, this is because the system has deemed duplication unnecessary. If duplication is unnecessary, this suggests that the individual is not important to maintaining the parallel nature of the universe into the future, i.e. they don't do anything historically important and they don't have kids.

Y'get me?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm saying that because Jake does not go on to have kids in the Prime universe, there is no need for a Mirror Jake.

So you believe that there's no need for characters who don't have kids?

 

[eyeresist]

I'm talking about the rules that keep the universes parallel over time. Not making any personal judgements!

 

[F. King Daniel]

My brain hurts trying to imagine an MUTCW, which ends with the MU Enterprise crew stopping Vosk, who's aiding Winston Churchill or something crazy like that

 

[wayoung]

Yeah, it doesn't make logical sense that everyone in the prime universe has a mirror twin. With such different histories they should have completely different populations. The number of universe's you exist in is minimal compared to all the universe you don't exist. Each time you add another person existing the number shrinks and shrinks and shrinks....

Have to chalk it up to suspension of disbelief. Which I'm happy to do for entertaining fiction.

 

[REDrake]

Just for the record, TNG characters don't show up in MU. Except for Miles "Smiley" and Worf.

And for Picard and Troi in novels.

 

[saladdays]

And for Picard and Troi in novels.

Isn't much (most?) of the mirror Enterprise-D crew in the novel Dark Mirror? Besides Troi and and Picard, I thought there was also Geordi, Riker, and Crusher (and Worf, but you already mentioned him). Of course, the Worf in that novel doesn't follow the canon mirror universe Worf seen in DS9.

 

[REDrake]

I don't remember Geordi or Riker in novels. I might be wrong though.

And Worf has a very minor role in novels. I think he shows up only in Rise like Lions and even there just to kill himself.

 

[eyeresist]

^ SPOILERS!!!!!!!

 

[exocomp]

Just for the record, TNG characters don't show up in MU. Except for Miles "Smiley" and Worf.

And for Picard and Troi in novels.

I wonder how mirror Picard would have been like. Maybe like Shinzon, only older. It's possible that mirror Picard actually murdered Beverly's husband to get her in the sack.

 

[saladdays]

I don't remember Geordi or Riker in novels. I might be wrong though.

And Worf has a very minor role in novels. I think he shows up only in Rise like Lions and even there just to kill himself.

Yeah, I don't know. The only mirror universe novel I've read is Dark Mirror. I thought they'd at least referred to Geordi in that one, but perhaps he was already dead or something. Come to think of it, I don't actually remember Riker or Crusher in that one though.

 

[REDrake]

Oh, I see. We are talking about different Mirror Universes.

I am not talking about Diane Duane's series of Dark Mirror. Those were written before Mirror Universe was revisited in DS9.
However, there are more recent series of novels and short stories. As an example, Age of the Empress takes place right after In a Mirror Darkly, with Hoshi becoming empress.

Sorrows of the Empire is however the best MU novels. It follows Mirror, Mirror with Spock becoming Emperor and bringing the Terran Empire to its dissolution.

And mirror Picard shows up in several short novels and one large one. Worst of Both Worlds is the best he shows up in, but Rise Like Lions (which unfortunately serves as MU finale) is quite good too. He's not evil though, more like a Han Solo wannabe.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In "City on the Edge of Forever", Spock talks about the "currents of time" being "like a river" and that somehow explained why they'd intersect with McCoy in time to save history. It's pure fantasy twaddle, but so is time travel and evil twin universes and whatnot as a whole, so I'm happy to go along with it to explain why nearly every AU we see in Trek (Mirror, Kelvin, Yesterday's Enterprise, Before and After etc) has the same characters interacting in the same places in similar ways and sharing many events despite sometimes huge differences in character backstories and circumstances.

 

[saladdays]

Oh, I see. We are talking about different Mirror Universes.

I am not talking about Diane Duane's series of Dark Mirror. Those were written before Mirror Universe was revisited in DS9.
However, there are more recent series of novels and short stories. As an example, Age of the Empress takes place right after In a Mirror Darkly, with Hoshi becoming empress.

Yeah, I knew that Dark Mirror didn't follow the canonical mirror universe seen in DS9. I didn't realize you were talking directly about the other novels though.