Genesis Devices

[ironnerd]

There must be some kind of treaty against Genesis Devices in TNG. Otherwise 1701-D would carry a few around for those times when they came across a lifeless planet. Maybe someplace like Delta Rana IV, where Kevin and Rishon Uxbridge lived. It was all but destroyed by the Husnock. After resolving the little issue with Kevin, they could drop a Genesis Device as they leave orbit and let Star Fleet know Delta Rana IV is, once again, fit for habitation.

All those planets they are trying to "Terraform,"... drop a Genesis Device and move in tomorrow.
Big Nebula taking too long to condense into a star system, drop off a Genesis Device and let there be light!

It just makes sense that if they can make one, and one of the designers survived Khan, they should be able to make more. Even better ones after a while. And they would carry a few around in most exploration ships incase they find a dead planet.

All that being said, I always wondered why they didn't just test the stupid thing on Venus.

 

[Vorpal_Blade]

As I recall, Dr. David Marcus used proto-matter in order to get the Genesis Device to work. What it produced was a very unstable planet that was self-destructing. I don't think that it would be viable for terraforming.

 

[ironnerd]

Hmmm.... So it's just an awesome weapon... That would have made for some cool TNG episodes. Some captain goes rogue and starts dropping Genesis Devices on Cardassian planets.
I though David used proto-matter as a shortcut. Maybe his Mom could build a second devise with "the good stuff".

 

[Ghel]

I liked the theory (and I can't remember if it was in a novel or on a board such as this one) that the Genesis device actually worked fine (as evidenced by stage two of Genesis testing.) However, the Genesis device/waive was never intended to be used in the middle of a nebula and therefore didn't have the energy to create and then stabilize the Genesis planet. Even with protomatter, it may have worked if used as directed. That could open up a number of interesting stories.
I often thought that the Genesis device would make an amazing weapon. Image setting that off on or inside a Borg Cube. Suddenly Earth may not have been in nearly the same type of peril in BOBW. Of course, this could be said for a lot of "forgotten" Treknology.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The implication of the use of Protomatter is that Dr. David Marcus did so without the knowledge of the rest of the Genesis team. Or, at least, that David seems to want to take responsibility for it, himself, even if the rest of the team did know about it -- which they absolutely would have. It's interesting to note the following indulgence, however ...

In the Genesis Wave series, Captain Jean-Luc Picard reads a report on the Genesis project which speculates that the Genesis planet collapsed because it was formed from a nebula rather than the protomatter being the automatic cause of the failure, suggesting that Genesis would have worked if it had been fired at a planet as it was originally intended.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe the Starfleet holds Genesis Devices in reserve as the means to carry out General Order 24?

 

[wayoung]

Like Khan's blood in the Kelvinverse and innumerable other pieces of technology and scientific discoveries in Trek, Genesis is franchise breaking and thus ignored post TVH. It's too powerful. Otherwise the Borg, the dominion, species 7- whatever never would stand a chance. Facing a powerful enemy? Fire off a Genesis torpedo. Problem solved. Even if you're not into planetary Genocide it's still going to destroy any ship / fleet you're facing with minimal effort.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Well, isn't that the whole point of Star Trek 3? The Klingons feared Genesis as a weapon. I am sure there were off screen negotiations after Star Trek 4 TVH, where the Federation had to swear off further use and development of Genesis.

Also, as an aside and I can't remember the title, but didn't changeling-Bashir try to blow up the Bajor system with injecting the star with protomatter, the key ingredient of Genesis?

 

[MacLeod]

Well, isn't that the whole point of Star Trek 3? The Klingons feared Genesis as a weapon. I am sure there were off screen negotiations after Star Trek 4 TVH, where the Federation had to swear off further use and development of Genesis.

Also, as an aside and I can't remember the title, but didn't changeling-Bashir try to blow up the Bajor system with injecting the star with protomatter, the key ingredient of Genesis?

That was the episode "By Inferno's Light" but there was other materials. Protomatter was also used to reignite a dead star in DSN's "Second Sight".

And as others have pointed out, we don't know for sure if the use of Protomatter had any impact on the stability or rather instability of the Genesis Planet as he device was never used as intended had it been used on a planet or moon it might have worked just fine. Just because it was denounced as unpredictable by scientist doesn't mean a scientist won't come along at a later date and be able to make predict what it will do.

 

[Desert Kris]

I got the impression, supported by how the novelization of TSFS that protomatter worked to speed up the emergence of sophisticated life forms such as the plant life we see on the planets surface. David says in reference to the use of protomatter that if it wasn't used, "It might have been years, or never." So a consideration is do we want Genesis with or without growth acceleration. Controlled growth acceleration may not be in the cards, since we're seeing a prototype, it may take additional development to have the emergence of sophisticated life-sustaining ecosystems early, followed by Genesis planets settling into a more normal, much slower pattern of growth and evolution.

Also, there is the implication that making use of protomatter is unethical, so maybe that was a detail that had to be hashed out in diplomatic negotiations. Mind you, for all the complaints that Klingons raise, and no doubt the Romulans raise, they both can be pretty hypocritical when you consider arguments about how the Klingons and Romulans pushed the Federation into agreeing not to cultivate cloaking technology (while they freely make use of it!). The way Klingons have developed over the course of the shows and movies, and the way they obsess about being honorable warriors, earlier iterations of how they are depicted so them being spectacularly dishonorable! The Romulans can be very exasperating, too; I can see them being pushy about forcing the Federation to end development of the Genesis technology...and then turning around and having no qualms about developing it and perfecting it, ect.

I wonder if the technology does manifest in small ways, leading to the nearly magical quality of TNG's replicators and their energy to matter conversion capabilities?

With or without protomatter and the aspect of the process that is "life generating" the mechanic of how the device/torpedo breaks down source material for re-molding strikes me as awfully easy to isolate from the rest of the devices function, and protomatter is not implicated in that aspect of the device. That isolated breaking down process is quite frightening, and seems all to easy to weaponize. The overnight disappearing of this aspect of the Genesis device is quite like the Transwarp beaming from the Kelvin timeline.

 

[UnknownSample]

I think we've reached crises by the 23rd and 24th centuries that have caused us, and other planets, to come to terms with living in a galaxy with countless doomsday weapons available. Certain events have probably happened that cause a certain amount of restraint in their use. Some technologies might be detectable from a long distance, so bans might be verifiable. Anyway, I think that if the Feds decline to use such weapons, it means the Romulans etc don't need to work on the same thing, etc..
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Khan was a loose cannon. The Romulans aren't. The Federation isn't.
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All through the Cold War, the USSR did not send nuclear missiles against the West, and vice versa. And what happened to the cobalt bombs people kept saying were the next step? They never happened. It's not just about carrying the biggest stick.
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Also, we probably just get past the idea that if we CAN build something bigger and more dangerous, we MUST. Even aggressors and conquerors.

 

[Tenacity]

David used proto-matter as a shortcut. Maybe his Mom could build a second devise with "the good stuff".

Protomatter might have been David's idea, but as project leader it would have been Carol's decision to include the protomatter in the finished device.

... was a loose cannon. The Romulans aren't

Huh? It was the Romulan military that backed the Shinzon coup, with the understanding that Shinzon would quickly use the theleron (sp?) weapon directly on Earth.

It's not just about carrying the biggest stick.

The Soviets designed a hydrogen bomb so large that the half sized test version was nearly 60 megatons.

 

[UnknownSample]

Tenaciousness.... is that Nemesis? Well, there's always a danger of loose cannons rising to the top. Through coups. Even in the Federation. In the long term, stability returns, usually, Khans burn themselves out fast.
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H-bomb... was that a lot bigger than ours? I don't know much in that area. My point was that all sides may make all these discoveries, then not be free to use them without making things much worse.

 

[Tenacity]

H-bomb... was that a lot bigger than ours?

The American MK-41 was 25 megatons.

 

[soornge]

i am sure technolgy bans in the federation would work just like test ban treaties today and if we can detect a nuclear blast without being inside the hoarder of the country its safe to assume anything the size of power to destroy a planet would he easily detectible in space especially when the neutral zone is full of ling range scanning posts on both sides : remeber the genesis olant wad already hugely contested almost as soon as it was created and the genesis wave itself was so unique it would have been identified . additionally the genesis project was not a starfleet program : people keep confusing the federation for starfleet . additionally there is no reason to believe the project team was that small or not designed jointly, comparing its production to the a bomb isnt quite right : the scientist involved never thought of it as a weapon of war . seems like oh wel how can you say that but in that refard you have never worked with project teams , engineers or researchers often like bones says @we get caught up in the how we forget to ask if we should" to be honest even though u could argue they were nt the only ones only kahn and the klingons thiught of it as a weapon which shows you what good neighbors the klingons are . additionally people seem to think the klingon empire is more centealized than it really is : provincial governors have very little limit on thier authority the central council enforces its power through its abikity to conquer : should look much more at mongul organization to understand klingon politics

 

[The Old Mixer]

The final fate of the Genesis Device:

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[Kevman7987]

"What's that?"
"The Ark of the Covenant."
"Are you sure?"
"Pretty sure."

 

[Galileo7]

Maybe the Starfleet holds Genesis Devices in reserve as the means to carry out General Order 24?

Agree, it is the ultimate weapon, like the Alpha-Omega bomb in Beneath The Planet Of The Apes(1971). They would come handy against Borg cubes, etc.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

All these groundbreaking devices are developed, only to be:
1) shelved when they fail spectacularly, as they must, from a story point of view, so as not to eliminate other storylines
2) Used up/eliminated in such a manner that they can never be duplicated again.
3) Kept top secret so nobody can ever use them again, to prevent changing the universe too much.
4) The inspiration for a much less harmful device based on/using aspects of the technology for public consumption. (I wonder if, in universe, aspects of the Genesis device either were partially inspired by or ultimately responsible for inspiring improvements to replicator/transporter tech)

 

[UnknownSample]

Agree, it is the ultimate weapon, like the Alpha-Omega bomb in Beneath The Planet Of The Apes(1971). They would come handy against Borg cubes, etc.

They already had General Order 24, and that small container of anti-matter in Obsession could rip away half a planet's atmosphere, so I think they had plenty of doomsday weapons already.