The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

[B.J.]

 

[Dryson]

I was reading the article about a planet that was discovered orbiting two Red Dwarf stars.

http://www.space.com/34159-alien-planet-has-2-suns-instead-of-1.html

In binary-star systems, the two stars orbit a common center of mass. When one star passes in front of the other from our perspective on Earth, gravity from the closer star bends and magnifies the light coming from the star in the background. Astronomers can study this distorted light to find clues about the star in the foreground and any potential planets orbiting the star system.

Perhaps there is a new phenom taking place that instead of two stars being close together where the closer star bends and magnifies the light maybe two stars far apart with the star closer to us causes the light behind the main star to bend and reduce the magnification causing the light curve of the second star to dim dramatically.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The equal and opposite reaction of the process discussed in the article would be that one star would have a dimmer light curve.

Going back to the black hole theory.

Cygnus X-I and the nearby Black Hole

Is the black hole near Cygnus X-I in between a clear line of sight when Kepler looks at KIC 8462852? If so is some of the light traveling from KIC 8462852 not making it past the black hole which could explain the decrease in the light of KIC 8462.

 

[psCargile]

If you are not an astronomer, a cosmologist, or a physicist, you can be sure those that are have already asked and dismissed more questions than you can think of.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm treating the questions as rhetorical. I don't have the patience or the energy to try to answer them. There are potentially a nearly uncountable number of available hypotheses that can be posited and these particular ones just don't warrant attention.

 

[Dryson]

If you are not an astronomer, a cosmologist, or a physicist, you can be sure those that are have already asked and dismissed more questions than you can think of.

Could KIC 8462 be a money pit scam? There's a question that no one has asked?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

There are a lot of questions that no one has asked and probably that no one should ask. Here is a link to a paper whose authors make some new suggestions about the nature of the dimming based on numerical analysis rather than wild speculation:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1609.04032v1.pdf

We apply a PCA-based pre-whitening method to the entire collection of main Kepler mission long-cadence data for KIC 8462852 spanning four years. This technique removes the correlated variations of instrumental origin in both the detected light curves and astrometry, resolving intrinsic changes in flux and image position of less than 100 ppm and 1 mas, respectively. Beside the major dips in the light curve during mission quarters 8 and 16, when the flux dropped by up to 20%, we confirm multiple smaller dips across the time span of observation with amplitudes ranging from 0.1% to 7%. A variation of flux with a period of 0.88 d and a half-amplitude of approximately 90 ppm is confirmed in the PCA-cleaned data. We find that the phase of the wave is steady over the entire 15-month interval. We confidently detect a weak variability-induced motion (VIM) effect in the cleaned astrometric trajectories, when the moment-based centroids shift synchronously with the flux dips by up to 0.0008 pixels on the detector. The inconsistent magnitude and direction of VIM effects within the same quarter point at more than one source of photometric variability in the blended image. The 0.88 d periodicity comes from a different source, not from the target star KIC 8462852. We discuss a possible interpretation of the bizarre properties of the source as a swarm of interstellar junk (comets and planetoids) crossing the line of sight to the star and its optical companions at approximately 7 mas per year.

ppm = parts per million
mas = milliarcsecond =one thousandth of one second of arc (for comparison, the moon subtends an angle of about 31 arc minutes = 1,860 arc seconds = 1,860,000 mas as seen from earth).

 

[Dryson]

There are a lot of questions that no one has asked and probably that no one should ask. Here is a link to a paper whose authors make some new suggestions about the nature of the dimming based on numerical analysis rather than wild speculation:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1609.04032v1.pdf



ppm = parts per million
mas = milliarcsecond =one thousandth of one second of arc (for comparison, the moon subtends an angle of about 31 arc minutes = 1,860 arc seconds = 1,860,000 mas as seen from earth).

Sounds like a paper meant to cover up the findings of KIC 8462.

One simple way to determine the papers authenticity is to move Kepler to another location and record data from KIC 8462 at a different angle than KIC 8462 was originally tracked. If KIC is in fact dimming then the decrease in the light curve would show up once again in the data returned by Kepler.

If there isn't any decrease in light curve recorded from KIC 8462 at the new location then the paper would be deemed correct.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The authors of the paper argue that the 0.88 day variability might be due to a star in line of sight between the KST and KIC 8462852 but that the large scale dimming is observed for KIC 8462852. They postulate that the transiting objects might be in deep space and not associated with any star. While the first suggestion seems plausible given the evidence, it seems somewhat hard to believe that such non-bound objects have not been observed for any other star. It might be the case that this is just a chance, rare occurrence of such a phenomenon but it seems very unlikely that another star would be in the line of sight as well. Perhaps the objects are associated with that star instead of KIC 8462852. What's needed now perhaps is analysis of the spectrum to see if its a superposition of two different stars. I doubt that NASA will consider moving KST if that were even possible given it has limited fuel available and that is used for station-keeping. The KST is already in degraded operational mode due to the the failure of two reaction wheels and the possible failure of the remaining reaction wheels would render the spacecraft useless. As a result, it is now dedicated to the Second Light (K2) mission in place of its original mission.

 

[Nebusj]

Sounds like a paper meant to cover up the findings of KIC 8462.

One simple way to determine the papers authenticity is to move Kepler to another location and record data from KIC 8462 at a different angle than KIC 8462 was originally tracked.

[URL="http://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1959/11/15"']``I'm gonna move over here where I can get a closer look!''[/URL]

 

[Dryson]

We will probably have to wait and see what the JWST discovers when it is finally launched. If the same decrease in light curve is detected by the JWST then the data was not a result of failed reaction wheels or misalignment's.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It's probably not high of their list of objects to observe.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

Then again, since the dips occur at 750 day intervals, especially given our lack of data on this remarkable and rare event, it likely to get high priority during the transit event. The next date is in May 2017. Obviously the James Webb won't be operational then. But if James Webb is operational in 2019, I wouldn't be surprised if it took a look during the event.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Then again, since the dips occur at 750 day intervals, especially given our lack of data on this remarkable and rare event, it likely to get high priority during the transit event.

I don't think that's correct. No long-term periodicity has been established for KIC 8462852. If you look at the curve (see for example, https://astrobites.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/8462852_lc-1024x386.png), only two large dips occurred, separated by about 750 days and there was no such large dimming event earlier in the time series. Two dimming events don't establish a cycle. The profile of the dimming isn't at all similar to what is expected for a transit unless the transiting body is large compared with the star and has a non-circular cross section. Calling such events "transits" implies an explanation, for which the evidence is poor.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

They have had two opportunities and missed the third:

The first major dip, on 5 March 2011, obscured the star's brightness by up to 15%, and the other (on 28 February 2013) by up to 22%. In comparison, a planet the size of Jupiter would only obscure a star of this size by 1%, indicating that whatever is blocking light during the star's major dips is not a planet, but rather something covering up to half the width of the star.[10] Due to the failure of two of Kepler's reaction wheels, the star's predicted 750-day dip around April 2015 was not recorded;[1][9] further observations are planned for May 2017.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_8462852

In May of 2017 we should be able to see if there is a third or not. If so, we have a pretty decent pattern, and will know before the James Web is operational.

I also agree calling it a transit does imply something is moving between the star and us blocking the light. Since we are not certain of that yet, I will stick to the more generic term "event".

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yeah, two of the reaction wheels on the KST are buggered so it's currently operating in degraded mode and can't fulfil its original mission. The JWST will likely be targeting more scientifically interesting objects. This particular one, although unusual and unexplained, probably won't be given priority.

 

[Dryson]

I don't think that's correct. No long-term periodicity has been established for KIC 8462852. If you look at the curve (see for example, https://astrobites.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/8462852_lc-1024x386.png), only two large dips occurred, separated by about 750 days and there was no such large dimming event earlier in the time series. Two dimming events don't establish a cycle. The profile of the dimming isn't at all similar to what is expected for a transit unless the transiting body is large compared with the star and has a non-circular cross section. Calling such events "transits" implies an explanation, for which the evidence is poor.

According to the KIC 8462 Wiki and many other sources the dimming has in fact been a long term decrease.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_8462852

In addition to the day-long dimmings, a study of a century's worth of photographic plates suggest the star has gradually faded from 1890 to 1989 by about 20%, which would be unprecedented for any F-type main sequence star.

If the decrease in the light of KIC 8462 just recently happened, within the last 25 years, then the reason for the dimming would have taken place rather recently and would have moved on and would not form any long term patterns

When JWST comes on line I would have to think that one it's main targets would be KIC 8462 just because of the enigma surrounding the star and people wanting to know what the hell is going on at KIC 8462 and EPIC 916.

I was trying to find documentation on YSO Dippers in a Wiki but was unable to. Someone else should research the YSO topic.

I still think that a Dark Matter interaction is taking place with KIC 8462 and EPIC 916.

 

[Dryson]

Could light pollution possibly be the reason for the decrease of the light curve of KIC 8462 and EPIC 916?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/11/health/light-pollution-atlas-milky-way-irpt/index.html

 

[sojourner]

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I thought we had already agreed that it's a mutant star goat.

 

[psCargile]

Must be the photon belt.