Food replicator produce.

[Jedman67]

If the Transporter actually did convert every molecule of your body into energy (which would be a sh*t-ton of energy by the way) then transportees wouldn't be able to move their feet, talk, or grab lost space aliens - yet they do, in numerous different episodes and movies.

Clearly the Transporters operate in a different way than that which is just as well, since otherwise the Transporter would be an absurdly godlike piece of technology, able to duplicate Soonien androids and resurrect the dead with the mere push of a button - all you would need is a saved pattern and the equivalent amount of mass on the pad, ready for atomic rearrangement.

More likely, the Transporter operates by something like phasing its passengers (intact) into a nearby energy realm and then retrieving them at the destination point. This way, casual phrases like "converts you into energy" still hold up as generalised descriptions for the lamen, and a lot of the otherwise associated silliness is avoided.

That's not how it's described in any incarnations of Star Trek, however. And clearly the starships are capable of handling that sh*t-ton of energy.

Let's face it. the "science" behind fictional trek technology is dubious at best. I can accept the premise at face value, despite the inconsistencies of it's portrayal, since it's just a tv show. I enjoy trying to figure out what might make more sense or be more realistic but you seem to be taking that a bit further.

 

[locutus101]

The transporter does essentially that and no one says the transporter could replace the warp core. You're analogy simply doesn't hold (replicated) water.
Just watching VOY:Shattered last night (miserable excuse for an episode, but whatever) Janeway and Chakotay have a discussion involving replicators "burning food". Either the writers are imagining the replicator as basically a high tech oven or, my own theory is that the replicator software includes a sophisticated CAD type program which would, when you request a specific recipe (rather than a pre-programmed option) it will take all the base elements, design them into the right ingredients, and "virtually cook" the food before 'beaming' the completed dish onto the replicator tray.

I never understood the logic behind Janeway's replicator calcining her food. If all she has to do is order the food and the replicator does everything for her then I can only guess that she has some sort of speech impediment. Maybe instead of "I want roast beef."
she says "I want carbonized beef"

 

[Mytran]

That's not how it's described in any incarnations of Star Trek, however. And clearly the starships are capable of handling that sh*t-ton of energy.

The way it's described and way it's presented on screen do require a bit of left-field thinking to get them to co-exist, that is true.

Let's face it. the "science" behind fictional trek technology is dubious at best. I can accept the premise at face value, despite the inconsistencies of it's portrayal, since it's just a tv show. I enjoy trying to figure out what might make more sense or be more realistic but you seem to be taking that a bit further.

Guilty as charged - I have a hard time taking statements on face value (even on sci-fi TV shows) that are blatantly contradicted by events elsewhere in the same franchise, or even by common sense. YMMV and so, of course, IDIC

I never understood the logic behind Janeway's replicator calcining her food. If all she has to do is order the food and the replicator does everything for her then I can only guess that she has some sort of speech impediment. Maybe instead of "I want roast beef."
she says "I want carbonized beef"

I just think she's not as good a scientist or an engineer as she would like to believe. Sure she can talk the tech-talk, but since she's just reading most of the words off nearby display screens that doesn't really count for much

 

[locutus101]

...
I just think she's not as good a scientist or an engineer as she would like to believe. Sure she can talk the tech-talk, but since she's just reading most of the words off nearby display screens that doesn't really count for much

I think you could be onto something here.

 

[Jedman67]

Heh even I do the same sometimes.

 

[locutus101]

Heh even I do the same sometimes.

We all do.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Uhm, no. Replicators magically transform matter from one state into another. You just need a blob of base matter for it to work...

Obviously not. You need a SPECIFIC type of base matter to make a particular item. This is the whole reason, evidently, why mining is still a thing, and why latinum and dilithium cannot be replicated.

Amusingly, we also found out in "For the Uniform" that selenium cannot be replicated (the Maquis had to steal it from a freighter) and apparently neither can rhodium nitrite. Most importantly, cobalt diselenide cannot be replicated either; or rather, if it can, you need to feed selenium and rhodium nitrite into a properly programmed replicator or possibly a cascade of them to get the precursor elements.

If replicators could make anything out of anything, the Maquis -- who DEFINITELY have access to replicators -- wouldn't have needed to steal anything ever.

It's only limited in that it can't recreate very specific materials like latinum and dilithium. It could, however, turn a lump of lead into a lump of gold

Unless there is a canon example of this happening, I doubt it.

 

[locutus101]

Obviously not. You need a SPECIFIC type of base matter to make a particular item. This is the whole reason, evidently, why mining is still a thing, and why latinum and dilithium cannot be replicated.

Amusingly, we also found out in "For the Uniform" that selenium cannot be replicated (the Maquis had to steal it from a freighter) and apparently neither can rhodium nitrite. Most importantly, cobalt diselenide cannot be replicated either; or rather, if it can, you need to feed selenium and rhodium nitrite into a properly programmed replicator or possibly a cascade of them to get the precursor elements.

If replicators could make anything out of anything, the Maquis -- who DEFINITELY have access to replicators -- wouldn't have needed to steal anything ever.


Unless there is a canon example of this happening, I doubt it.

I think replicators can make anything except when it's plot convenient that they don't.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

If replicators were really this powerful, you could almost do away with the warp reactor altogether!

I've been saying this for a LONG time. It's clear the only way to convert matter directly into energy involves a dilithium crystal and a very highly engineered and carefully monitored matter/antimatter reaction. Replicators cannot logically accomplish the same feat with pushbutton ease on a ship that still uses warp cores as a source of energy; if they could, warp cores would already be obsolete and you could literally run the engines on any random detritus you had lying around.

 

[locutus101]

I've been saying this for a LONG time. It's clear the only way to convert matter directly into energy involves a dilithium crystal and a very highly engineered and carefully monitored matter/antimatter reaction. Replicators cannot logically accomplish the same feat with pushbutton ease on a ship that still uses warp cores as a source of energy; if they could, warp cores would already be obsolete and you could literally run the engines on any random detritus you had lying around.

Who says that you can't? They seem able to run for an awfully long time without having to refuel.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

Obviously not. You need a SPECIFIC type of base matter to make a particular item. This is the whole reason, evidently, why mining is still a thing, and why latinum and dilithium cannot be replicated.

Amusingly, we also found out in "For the Uniform" that selenium cannot be replicated (the Maquis had to steal it from a freighter) and apparently neither can rhodium nitrite. Most importantly, cobalt diselenide cannot be replicated either; or rather, if it can, you need to feed selenium and rhodium nitrite into a properly programmed replicator or possibly a cascade of them to get the precursor elements.

If replicators could make anything out of anything, the Maquis -- who DEFINITELY have access to replicators -- wouldn't have needed to steal anything ever.

It's only limited in that it can't recreate very specific materials like latinum and dilithium. It could, however, turn a lump of lead into a lump of gold

Unless there is a canon example of this happening, I doubt it.

You can doubt it all you want, but that's the basic, fundamental principle of the technology. It even serves as a garbage disposal, disintegrating whatever you put into it for later use, whether you use it to create the same object, food, clothing, a weapon, or anything else you need or want, within its completely arbitrary and/or regulation limits (ie, dilithium, latinum, poisons, official Starfleet uniforms, etc.).

 

[locutus101]

You can doubt it all you want, but that's the basic, fundamental principle of the technology. It even serves as a garbage disposal, disintegrating whatever you put into it for later use, whether you use it to create the same object, food, clothing, a weapon, or anything else you need or want, within its completely arbitrary and/or regulation limits (ie, dilithium, latinum, poisons, official Starfleet uniforms, etc.).

It also works as a dishwasher and a washing machine. You put your dirty clothes in there and you get the same clothes clean or other ones entirely. People can wear a different outfit every day of the year without any problem.

 

[Mytran]

You can doubt it all you want, but that's the basic, fundamental principle of the technology. It even serves as a garbage disposal, disintegrating whatever you put into it for later use, whether you use it to create the same object, food, clothing, a weapon, or anything else you need or want, within its completely arbitrary and/or regulation limits (ie, dilithium, latinum, poisons, official Starfleet uniforms, etc.).

That might be the perceived fundamental principle of the replicator to the audience, but in practise (in the episodes) it mostly just serves as a fancy food slot.

If the replicator is really an economically effective matter disintegrator/integrator/rearranger then it has no place in the Star Trek universe with the practical limitations we are shown elsewhere.

 

[locutus101]

....
If the replicator is really an economically effective matter disintegrator/integrator/rearranger then it has no place in the Star Trek universe with the practical limitations we are shown elsewhere.

You can see people put their dirty dishes in there and recycle them. In one episode one guy says to Jake that since he left without touching his food he put it back in the replicator, so he could reorder it later. So it must be economically effective otherwise that would seem like an insane waste of energy.

 

[Mytran]

Or it doesn't work by disintegration into energy, but rather by some other means - such as the method I suggested earlier for Transporters.

After all, just set a transporter beam to lock onto "plate only" and the dirt gets removed by proxy. Send a second beam to move whatever's left into waste reclamation and there's your finished breakfast all "recycled".

 

[locutus101]

Or it doesn't work by disintegration into energy, but rather by some other means - such as the method I suggested earlier for Transporters.

After all, just set a transporter beam to lock onto "plate only" and the dirt gets removed by proxy. Send a second beam to move whatever's left into waste reclamation and there's your finished breakfast all "recycled".

Well, I guess anything is possible. I just don't believe that''s the case. The one thing that's constant is that people can replicate pretty much anything they want at will: Phasers, rifles (Fields Of Fire), clothes, food of any kind, violins, gagh, books...

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

That might be the perceived fundamental principle of the replicator to the audience, but in practise (in the episodes) it mostly just serves as a fancy food slot.

Uh, in TOS maybe. Not in any of the other series, where it has regularly been used to create just about anything within its limits, and has been talked about and shown to recycle goods as well.

 

[locutus101]

Uh, in TOS maybe. Not in any of the other series, where it has regularly been used to create just about anything within its limits, and has been talked about and shown to recycle goods as well.

In TOS, I don't think they even call it a replicator. Plus the stuff they eat looks kinda weird sort of like multi colored lego bricks.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Who says that you can't?

Every Starfleet engineer who has ever used the word "deuterium" in a sentence. Starship engines can run on little else.

Deuterium, incidentally, is a neutron-heavy isotope of hydrogen, which is found abundantly in the interstellar medium. Since the bussard collectors are constantly scooping hydrogen as the ship travels through space, deuterium is probably produced as a byproduct of the ship's fusion reactors.

They seem able to run for an awfully long time without having to refuel.

Not long enough, given the existence of "neutronic fuel carriers" like the infamous Kobayashi Maru.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You can doubt it all you want, but that's the basic, fundamental principle of the technology.

No, the basic fundamental principle of the technology is the matter transporter, which is the breaking down of an object into an energy pattern and then reassembling that pattern in another location. The only thing replicators can do that transporters can't is deliberately alter the shape, temperature and physical arrangement of the thing it's beaming, and that doesn't seem to require anything more complicated than placing the right substance in the right place within the finished product.

NOTHING in the description of how replicators work implies the transmutation of atoms or the deliberate manipulation of molecules during replication. Even transporters -- which under some circumstances DO rearrange entire objects in dramatic if not horrific ways -- do not actually alter the chemical or atomic composition of the thing they're beaming; a transporter can splice people together or turn them inside out, but it can't turn them into gold.

It even serves as a garbage disposal, disintegrating whatever you put into it for later use, whether you use it to create the same object, food, clothing, a weapon...

There is, again, no direct connection between those two roles; it's NEVER suggested that a recycled plate can be remade into a weapon or something edible. The only real suggestion for this comes from Voyager, at a moment where Janeway -- literally up to her elbows in crumbling and supposedly recyclable debris -- makes a big deal about Chakotay replicating her a pocket watch. It goes without saying the "mass" of the watch itself isn't really the issue, so much as the symbolic importance of using ship's resources for luxuries at a time when the ship itself was literally falling apart around them.