El Aurian homeworld

[DonIago]

Frankly, if VOY survived a hit from a tactical cube with shields down, then I either think the Borg weren't trying at the time or VOY had other tech going in their favor at the time.

I've been under the assumption that the J25 and BoBW cubes were one and the same, though I guess nothing explicitly states that. In terms of story, it doesn't seem to make much difference either way.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The Borg may well have bulldozed El Aurian with a vengeance, just as Guinan said and had probably always done so with worlds it assimilated. It may be that something changed within the Borg, itself. Just like in TNG, it all of a sudden, needs a Locutus to bridge the gap between Borg and Humanity. There was something going on, up until then and maybe Guinan's planet found itself on the tail end of that approach, just as the Borg were shifting gears.

 

[The Wormhole]

That's not something the Borg *do* as a rule.

To be fair, at the time Q Who was written, there were no rules regarding the Borg. The implication was that they handled the El Aurians in the manner which was SOP to them. True, there's no mention of any El Aurians being assimilated, but then assimilation itself hadn't yet been thought up when the episode was written.

The Queen did that to try to rekindle Seven's desire to return to the Collective by demonstrating their power, it was exactly the opposite of a standard assimilation, her being present, the overkill of the operation, all to to with 7.

It's been a few years, I'll admit, but my understanding was that the fleet assimilating the planet was an ongoing operation which the Queen decided to drop in on for Seven's benefit.

 

[Timo]

The Lakul and it's companion ship looked to be old and slow starships, antique practically. I dount they could manage that great a warp factor, they were 3 lightyears from Earth when the Nexus caught them, so they were probably heading for the Sol system anyway.

Sound likely.

That puts whats left of their starsystem not that many lightyears out from Earth, maybe 20 lightyears.

Sounds unlikely.

That is, it doesn't appear that the two ships would have been coming from the smoking ruins of El-Aurus. If that were true, the Federation would learn of what happened, would hear the story of the telltale holes in ground and the assimilating cyborg species, not from the potentially secretive refugees, but simply from the crews of the ships themselves.

More probably, this was true to how refugees move ITRW: the ships were carrying them across the Mediterranean and had no firsthand knowledge of what had happened in Zimbabwe to turn them into refugees in the first place.

The better question is, why would the Borg "swarm" through the system, destroying their civilisation so utterly that they just pummled the El Aurians out of existance. We've only ever seen the Borg do that to one other race, 8472.

Any species thus eradicated would be inbisible to us afterwards, so it's no wonder we never see this happen even if it happens every second Thursday.

We need to know why the Borg and Q were both shit scared of a race of "listeners".

I doubt anybody was. As The Wormhole says, Q worried about Guinan the individual for some reason, but made no racist remarks there - only personal ones.

^The Queen did that to try to rekindle Seven's desire to return to the Collective by demonstrating their power, it was exactly the opposite of a standard assimilation, her being present, the overkill of the operation, all to to with 7.

To the contrary, the Queen seemed to do the schoolmaster routine on Seven, making her go through all the standard motions pertaining to such assimilation. It was always "this is the Borg way, remember?".

And they didn't need that species, it was just to bolster drone numbers.

Again to the contrary, the Queen emphasized how the Collective has done its duty in improving the lives of the assimilees, and how they in turn are adding their distinctiveness to the Collective and enhancing it. Sounds like the thing the Borg do all right.

Guinan said they completely destroyed the El Aurian system and most of it's people in a rage, implying they barely even slowed down, just bulldozing as they went. That's not like them.

Nothing of the sort was stated. Guinan said they came, and when they left, no El-Aurians remained. No mention was made of any destruction (although of course none was made of assimilation, either, for an obvious and already mentioned reason). There's no difference to the fate of Species 10026 in "Dark Frontier", then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JasonJ]

Then how did you feel about 7 of 9?

I hear what you're saying/know what you're getting at. True... a huge human shaped sticker was slapped on them both... but I see a difference. Seven (eventually) made attempts to reconnect with her humanity... Hugh was only looking for individuality. He didn't seem to care or be aware that he was someone in the past. Did he ever try to hack into the Borg database and find out where he came from, what his real name is/was, if he had family? I don't recall that he did.

Seven was different.. not only in that she had most of her Borg tech removed, but in that she was not terribly interested in freeing other drones, like Hugh was, but in simply finding out more about herself. Hugh worked towards freeing other drones and demonstrating individuality to them only to end up created a new "Collective"... one of broken drones and cognitively damaged people.

As much as I liked Hugh, I think that was the point where the Borg started becoming less of a terrifying villain species. They became TOO relate-able. Too personal. If that hadn't of happened, I think Seven's return from the Collective into humanity may have been more profound as well.

 

[2takesfrakes]

... Hugh was only looking for individuality. He didn't seem to care or be aware that he was someone in the past. Did he ever try to hack into the Borg database and find out where he came from, what his real name is/was, if he had family? I don't recall that he did.

Hugh had no such opportunity. He was a ... "guest" ... onboard the "D" and all manner of precautions were taken. When he was returned to the Borg hive, we're given no clue what the outcome of that was. We don't get to see that.

 

[locutus101]

Hugh had no such opportunity. He was a ... "guest" ... onboard the "D" and all manner of precautions were taken. When he was returned to the Borg hive, we're given no clue what the outcome of that was. We don't get to see that.

I think Hugh was a homegrown Borg.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I'm not really a fan of "I, Borg" anyway. At the same time, were I running TNG and a writer presented me with it, I probably wouldn't say "no." It's very STAR TREKKIAN in its concept, but the execution isn't good. It relies too heavily upon emotional manipulation, instead of great writing. Oh! Hugh's such a lost little puppy! Look at him, he's just a kid ... aww ... poor baby! Guinan come in and give him a hug!

 

[Six of Twelve]

I think Hugh was a homegrown Borg.

The novel, Greater Than The Sum, said that Hugh was an incubated drone, while Seven of Nine was an assimilated drone. One, from the Voyager episode, Drone, was also an incubated drone. I assume that incubated drones do happen in the collective, considering Seven's comments about One's development in the maturation chamber as being much faster than was usual.

 

[φ of π]

Well I'm sure they must have assimilated pregnant people at some point. 2-for-1 assimilation for the win!

 

[locutus101]

The novel, Greater Than The Sum, said that Hugh was an incubated drone, while Seven of Nine was an assimilated drone. One, from the Voyager episode, Drone, was also an incubated drone. I assume that incubated drones do happen in the collective, considering Seven's comments about One's development in the maturation chamber as being much faster than was usual.

And that would explain why Hugh contrary to other drones never had any memories of a previous life.

 

[Tracy Trek]

The novel, Greater Than The Sum, said that Hugh was an incubated drone, while Seven of Nine was an assimilated drone.

Perhaps Hugh was the baby that Riker and the rest of the away team saw on the first Borg ship they encountered.

Well I'm sure they must have assimilated pregnant people at some point. 2-for-1 assimilation for the win!

The mother of the Borg baby in Voyager's episode Collective could have been assimilated while pregnant.

 

[locutus101]

Perhaps Hugh was the baby that Riker and the rest of the away team saw on the first Borg ship they encountered.
...

Even by Trek's standards, that would have been too much of a coincidence.

 

[JasonJ]

I think Hugh was a homegrown Borg.

Oh, perhaps... I was still unsure if the Borg even did that.

Well I'm sure they must have assimilated pregnant people at some point. 2-for-1 assimilation for the win!

A Borg removing a developing fetus from the womb is a creepy and disturbing thought... I'd rather ponder anal probing by Grey aliens than think of that! LOL. That being said, I was under the impression that was what the maturation chambers were for, to allow time to properly develop a fetus/young child into an adult sized, and therefore useful drone.

Didn't Icheb and his friends on Voyager merge from maturation chambers? I thought that was mentioned by Seven in conversation on-screen.

And that would explain why Hugh contrary to other drones never had any memories of a previous life.

That does make sense... although, if I were the Borg, I'd assimilate some of that memory wiping tech that E-D used every once in a while. Would be so much easier to erase the concept of individuality if the assimilatee did not have any memory engrams of being an individual; nothing of who they were, where they came from, etc. Even if they broke off from the Collective reintegrating them would be much easier.

Take what knowledge you need from the person, then wipe the hard drive of their brain and install your own cybernetic OS.

 

[locutus101]

.....
That does make sense... although, if I were the Borg, I'd assimilate some of that memory wiping tech that E-D used every once in a while. Would be so much easier to erase the concept of individuality if the assimilatee did not have any memory engrams of being an individual; nothing of who they were, where they came from, etc. Even if they broke off from the Collective reintegrating them would be much easier.

Take what knowledge you need from the person, then wipe the hard drive of their brain and install your own cybernetic OS.

That maybe more logic but it's not what the borg do. We've seen on several occasions that when a drone breaks loose from the hive he almost instantly recovers his personal memories and even remembers what he was doing at the instant he was assimilated.

 

[JasonJ]

That maybe more logic but it's not what the borg do. We've seen on several occasions that when a drone breaks loose from the hive he almost instantly recovers his personal memories and even remembers what he was doing at the instant he was assimilated.

You are correct. Goofy Borg... doing brainwashing and slavery all wrong and stuff...

Not how I would have written them though... I think if the writers wanted to explore the humanity of ex-Borg, getting disconnected and having, "Whoa... what? Who am I, what am I doing here?" provides a better story than "AH! What happened to me!? One minute I was replicating soup and the next I've got metal tubules in my neck!? OMG, look at me!"

But that's just me. :-)

 

[Six of Twelve]

Well I'm sure they must have assimilated pregnant people at some point. 2-for-1 assimilation for the win!

Pregnant women.

 

[Timo]

Depends on the species, supposedly.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[locutus101]

Well, since the borg have assimilated indiscriminately billions of people, they must have assimilated some pregnant women. There's no question about it.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I question that, especially since in vitro fertilization is something we've had for awhile now. The Borg could easily have taken that to the next level and then some.