El Aurian homeworld

[Timo]

Well, "tactical" is "less than strategic", and the Tactical Cube is a lesser vessel than the standard Cube by dimensions at least...

The thing is, the Borg were visiting the Federation back in the first season of TNG already. It's not as if they would have needed to scout in that direction to find out that the UFP existed - scouting would be to see how this subject of careful and lengthy study was currently doing.

Essentially, if the Borg really are "hundreds of millennia" old, like Guinan and Q claim (but how should the first one know, and why should we trust the latter?), they would have been everywhere at least a thousand times already. Their agenda just doesn't include conquering the entire Milky Way, because where would they assimilate new ideas then? They pick and choose, and after they have chosen, they may discard. There were only two times the Borg were shown possessing a planet - in "Scorpion" where the 8472 destroyed such a planet, and in ST:FC where the Borg plan involved temporally/temporarily assimilating and keeping Earth. Probably the Collective simply has little use for planets, or territory. Heck, even the very existence of "Borg territory" in VOY may have been largely a misconception by our heroes, a brief concentration of Borg activity in a particular part of the galaxy before they moved on to other places.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tracy Trek]

Essentially, if the Borg really are "hundreds of millennia" old, like Guinan and Q claim (but how should the first one know, and why should we trust the latter?), they would have been everywhere at least a thousand times already.

That statement has bothered me too. If they've been around that long and are that powerful, why isn't the whole galaxy conquered?

 

[C.E. Evans]

That statement has bothered me too. If they've been around that long and are that powerful, why isn't the whole galaxy conquered?

Conquering the whole Galaxy has never been the Borg's main objective, but the betterment of themselves through assimilation of others they deem worthy. The Collective probably doesn't consider most of the Galaxy worth assimilating, but only those civilizations that they find interesting.

 

[locutus101]

Conquering the whole Galaxy has never been the Borg's main objective, but the betterment of themselves through assimilation of others they deem worthy. The Collective probably doesn't consider most of the Galaxy worth assimilating, but only those civilizations that they find interesting.

I am not sure the borg would survive without new people to assimilate. Without them the bodies of those already assimilated would grow old, dwindle and die. They need new life forms and new civilizations even more than Enterprise. In fact, it must be hell maintaining their enormous population constant. Sooner or later they'll have to assimilate those people that they neglected the first time around.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I am not sure the borg would survive without new people to assimilate. Without them the bodies of those already assimilated would grow old, dwindle and die. They need new life forms and new civilizations even more than Enterprise. In fact, it must be hell maintaining their enormous population constant. Sooner or later they'll have to assimilate those people that they neglected the first time around.

We know from TNG's "Q Who?" and VOY's "Collective" that the Borg have the ability to procreate without having to do that (Borg babies).

 

[locutus101]

We know from TNG's "Q Who?" and VOY's "Collective" that the Borg have the ability to procreate without having to do that (Borg babies).

Seven said otherwise in "Revulsion." The borg babies could simply babies that they assimilated.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Seven said otherwise in "Revulsion." The borg babies could simply babies that they assimilated.

Actually, the only thing Seven said was that the Borg doesn't waste time with romance & seduction, no time for lovemaking (i.e., "single-cell fertilization" as Seven would put it). As such, that leaves procreation via test tubes.

 

[locutus101]

Actually, the only thing Seven said was that the Borg doesn't waste time with romance & seduction, no time for lovemaking (i.e., "single-cell fertilization" as Seven would put it). As such, that leaves procreation via test tubes.

Even in a test tube; you need single cell fertilization in order to reproduce. Seven ruled that out.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Even in a test tube; you need single cell fertilization in order to reproduce. Seven ruled that out.

Not at all. Her comment was directed more towards the act of normal human reproduction and all the courtship rituals that come with it being things the Borg didn't bother with. In any event, the existence of a Borg baby before and a barely there Borg infant after that episode is evidence that procreation is another means for the Borg to increase their numbers. Assimilation of other beings is not their only method of reproduction.

 

[locutus101]

Not at all. Her comment was directed more towards the act of normal human reproduction and all the courtship rituals that come with it being things the Borg didn't bother with. In any event, the existence of a Borg baby before and a barely there Borg infant after that episode is evidence that procreation is another means for the Borg to increase their numbers. Assimilation of other beings is not their only method of reproduction.

Every borg infant found in the maturation chamber were assimilated and not homemade. The baby was likely also assimilated only he was assimilated as a baby. There's no proof as far as I am concerned that the borg are capable of reproducing otherwise than by assimilating people. Seven confirmed that when she said that the borg didn't do "single cell fertilization". That's a pretty explicit tem. You want to ignore what she said and instead pretend that she was talking about romance, but "single cell fertilization" is neither romance nor cryptic. It's the precise description of what happens when you reproduce be it by having sex or in a test tube.

 

[Six of Twelve]

Not at all. Her comment was directed more towards the act of normal human reproduction and all the courtship rituals that come with it being things the Borg didn't bother with. In any event, the existence of a Borg baby before and a barely there Borg infant after that episode is evidence that procreation is another means for the Borg to increase their numbers. Assimilation of other beings is not their only method of reproduction.

The book, Greater Than The Sum, said that there are two type of Borg, assimilated, like Seven of Nine and incubated, like Hugh. This could explain their very different experiences after their links to the collective were severed. The difference that stood out most to me was that Hugh's body did not start rejecting his implants.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Every borg infant found in the maturation chamber were assimilated and not homemade.

There's no reason to believe that. Indeed, based on what we've seen, the logical conclusion is that the Borg uses both procreation and assimilation to increase their numbers.

 

[locutus101]

There's no reason to believe that. Indeed, based on what we've seen, the logical conclusion is that the Borg uses both procreation and assimilation to increase their numbers.

I disagree. IMO, there's no proof either way. And if we listen to Seven then we have to conclude that these babies have been assimilated.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I disagree. IMO, there's no proof either way.

There's proof all right. You really have to ignore that proof or look around it to claim otherwise.

And if we listen to Seven then we have to conclude that these babies have been assimilated.

Not really, because a case could easily be made that Seven was talking about normal human(oid) reproduction and how the Borg don't make babies that way.

 

[Six of Twelve]

There's proof all right. You really have to ignore that proof or look around it to claim otherwise.

Not really, because a case could easily be made that Seven was talking about normal human(oid) reproduction and how the Borg don't make babies that way.

In other words, they don't have sex.

 

[C.E. Evans]

In other words, they don't have sex.

Basically. To the Borg, foreplay and intercourse are unnecessary steps when genetic material can just be combined in a petri dish.

 

[Nebusj]

There's no reason to believe that. Indeed, based on what we've seen, the logical conclusion is that the Borg uses both procreation and assimilation to increase their numbers.

More, if the Borg depend only on assimilation then they're inherently self-limiting: whenever drone losses from all causes equal the drone assimilations from all sources, they're done. Won't grow any more numerous. If they procreate, then their numbers can grow until they hit limits of resource availability and organizational channels.

An inherently self-limited Borg might not be an insensible design: it requires that they not assimilate the entire universe, so that there are always new individuals, new cultures, new species to absorb. But if the Borg are by their lights a more perfect organism then it's weird to suppose they must not assimilate promising-looking civilizations. At the minimum it takes some of their threat away, since who suspects that deep down they're in a culture that's passed its creative peak and can be safely dismantled for component parts?

 

[TheSubCommander]

In other words, they don't have sex.

You obviously aren't a Joe Satriani fan...

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[φ of π]

I am not sure the borg would survive without new people to assimilate. Without them the bodies of those already assimilated would grow old, dwindle and die. They need new life forms and new civilizations even more than Enterprise. In fact, it must be hell maintaining their enormous population constant. Sooner or later they'll have to assimilate those people that they neglected the first time around.

I like to imagine that the El Aurians are species 125 (so the Queen used to be El Aurian - what better than someone from a race of listeners to make sense of a trillion voices in her head) and that the Borg assimilated transwarp technology from them.

The Queen's comment to Picard about thinking in three-dimensional terms could be an allusion to Guinan's meta-temporal perception, from Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In Q Who it certainly seemed they made their own babies then in Voyager it seemed like they were not.

I don't see why they wouldn't be able to.
They have complete technological mastery over biological functions so why would that one be an exception?