Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

[SicOne]

Well, there are a number of things to consider that could've impaired the Voyager from cruising as such a speed:
Fuel consumption and the need to find places to refuel
Maintenance and propulsion downtime
Damage sustained from the Caretaker's Array

I think that energy was a constant shadow over their heads, because they rationed out the use of the Replicators and Holodeck use.

Even then, the Voyager still managed to make it home in 23 years in the alternate (or original) Endgame timeline, even without using a Transwarp Conduit.

Additionally, being a frontline starship of exploration, Voyager would have taken time to explore Phenomena Of The Week while slowly making her way home, for all of the reasons you mentioned as well as plot needs.

Replicator and holodeck use had to be rationed in order to play along with plot elements of the show, but I would think that even a split-second of warp core power would be enough to power those systems for some time. It's like turning off your air conditioner to improve your gas mileage...it might help just a little bit, but doesn't make that much of an impact in the long haul.

 

[Ithekro]

It is possible Excelsior's drives worked, but not as expected. Instead of faster than warp drive, it is just better warp drive. Sustained higher speeds than the old Enterprise, but not faster than Enterprise had ever gone (not breaking her record).

The old USS Enterprise reached a speed of warp factor 14.1 and in theory could make warp factor 12 in her refit version (in order to make Vulcan in four days from Earth if one uses the warp factor cubed system). Using the TNG scale, warp factor 12 is around Warp 9.4 and warp factor 14.1 nearly Warp 9.9. So Excelsior didn't break records, but could sustain the higher speeds longer which would eventually allow the larger starships of the 2320s to 2370s travel have higher sustained speed. Warp 9 being between the old warp factor 11 and warp factor 12.

After two or three decades with the Excelsiors, people probably decided to adjust the scale so it wasn't, "Warp 12, engage," all the time (though "Warp 9.6, engage" isn't all that much better). Or they noticed the engine performance better with the newer engines on Excelsior and changed the scale when they designed the next generation of warp drives to take advantage of the power curves for more efficient engines that would last much longer and produce less stress on the hulls than the older Constitutions did. Thus instead of the 20 to 40 year service life out of a Constitution, you have a 100 year service life for a Galaxy, and Excelsiors that are still possibly in front line service after 80 years.

 

[SicOne]

While we saw Mirandas in service during DS9's Dominion War episodes, it seems odd to think that Constitution-refits were out of service. Though we only saw one once (in the ship graveyard of Wolf 359), I tend to think that Con-refits were still in service, but slightly fewer numbers and in different fleets than where we tended to notice the Mirandas. IIRC, the TV production explanation for a lack of Con-refits is that the producers didn't want to confuse the audience by showing "Kirk's Enterprise" along with Picard's Enterprise, but an in-universe explanation would suffice as Cons were just elsewhere while the cameras were rolling. Whether the majority of Cons and Mirandas were previously decommissioned and collecting dust in storage depots and put back into service for the Dominion War is a good question. While a refit Constitution might have been taken out of service well before the Dominion War, newbuild Cons and Mirandas from the 2270s and 2280s might well still be serviceable a century later with some care.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I got the impression that the Connies were too specialized in their mission to ultimately serve beyond the 23rd century, due largely to Morrow's revelation that --GASP!-- Enterprise was "almost 20 years old" and "has had her day", when other 23rd-century spaceframes lasted well into the mid-late 24th. Of all the engagements throughout all the TNG & DS9 episodes and movies, only Wolf 359 ever showed parts of a refit Connie - understandably so, it was the first major Borg attack, when the fleet wasn't anywhere the size it had become during the Dominion War and every mothballed scow was pulled into service at the last minute. There was never any real indication that the RefCon was considered anything other than a failed design by the Admiralty, with too many vulnerabilities and not enough versatility for multiple mission ops, to change at short notice. And with all the Excelsior's running about who were the natural successors to the RefCon (w/ Mirandas and Oberths lacking such equal successors), it makes all the sense in the world that the RefCon, while a nice idea at the time, had served its purpose and was no longer compatible with Starfleet MilSpec evolving requirements. Happens all the time in the real-world military. Why use F-4 phantoms when you have all these other newer better designs? Why use battleships when you have Aegis cruisers and flat-tops? Adapt or die.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I'm good with that. Using US warplanes as an analogy, we can have an air force that has huge, lumbering B-52Hs that were built in the early 1960s and which will last until at least 2045! At the same time, the awesome looking F-14 was with us from the mid 1970s until 2006 (unless you count the few that were sold to Iran which may or may not still be airworthy), while the F-4s they replaced were made in multiple batches starting in 1960, and dozens are still flying with foreign air forces today.

Meanwhile, the current workhorse of the Navy, the F/A-18E/F, is actually being supplemented by refurbished, earlier A/B models pinched from Marine Corps squadrons because they actually have fewer flying hours on their airframes. This is until the much-delayed and uber-expensive F-35C comes into service, which won't be for a while yet.

I'm sure a lot of this can be applied to Starfleet parallels in ship design and longevity. While I'm sure that every starship comes with upgradeability in mind, there will be a physical limit to how much and how far that can be safely taken. And as to the question of why they don't simply re-start the Constitution line, it would likely be less possible due to the original factories and infrastructure for the production of the class being long disassembled, and moving on to other designs.

As another parallel, Boeing 757s were made mostly in the 1980s and 90s and while not initially a huge success (which is why they stopped building them), they proved ideal for a certain purpose (long haul flights for modest passenger counts) within the commercial market and are indeed sought after for certain routes as their design maximizes an airline's profit for the number of passengers that will fly it. These planes will start coming to the end of their lifespans within the next decade, but they have no direct successor planned (Boeing 737s and Airbus 320s generally have shorter range and carry fewer passengers; and the larger B767 and A330 are basically overkill for the range and capacity). People have wondered about simply building more 757s, but doing so would not be profitable for Boeing as the factories and toolings are long gone. Instead, Boeing and Airbus are trying to market uprated versions of the B737 and A320 to match the range but not necessarily the capacity of the old 757.

Again, I'm sure this real-world stuff can be applied to why we see lots and lots of awesome Exclesiors and modest Mirandas while Connies, Ambassadors and other designs are relative flashes in Starfleet's pan...

Mark

 

[Ithekro]

The Miranda might simply be a more powerful ship than the Constitution. At least in firepower. The refit Constitution model has no visable aft torpedo tubes. it does have good phaser coverage. but then the Miranda likely has all arcs covered as well as the Constitutions with less phasers due to the more compact hull.

The Ambassadors may have been a limited production run, like the Galaxy class was originally going to be. In Kirk's day there were a little more than a dozen Constitution-class ships like Enterprise. In Picard's day there were suppose to be six Galaxy-class ships with six ready for completion if needed. The Ambassador-class may have been a similar project with a dozen of them built.

As oppose to the Miranda-class and Excelsior-class which do not seem to have been very limited in their runs. Or some of the "First Comtact" based ships which fill out the fleet with the Miranda and Excelsior hulls during the Dominion war, along with the enlarged number of Galaxy-class ships and some Nebula-class ships. The only missing ship from the newer group is the Norway-class.

 

[SicOne]

Has there been any links posted to an updated Excelsior Tech Manual from Praetor? The last stuff I saw was 2009, and only in the first four chapters.

 

[kevin5147]

What is the latest of the manual dude, I am looking for a copy...

 

[137th Gebirg]

Don't think it was ever finished. Was actually thinking about this one myself a couple of weeks back and couldn't find the old thread. Would definitely love to see it someday.

 

[publiusr]

Me too. More manuals, please.

 

[Praetor]

Hey guys, thanks for still being interested in this after all these years. Believe it or not, this has been something I've worked on, on and off, for over ten years now. Good lord.

I am actually picking this back up to work on it, but given the age of this thread I am planning to start a new one. Mods, you can lock this one if you so choose.

I promise I will have something to show too.

 

[publiusr]

Keep up the good work.

 

[fireproof78]

Hey guys, thanks for still being interested in this after all these years. Believe it or not, this has been something I've worked on, on and off, for over ten years now. Good lord.

I am actually picking this back up to work on it, but given the age of this thread I am planning to start a new one. Mods, you can lock this one if you so choose.

I promise I will have something to show too.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one with ten year long projects

Having developed a growing love of the Excelsior class over the years, I look forward to seeing this project continue on. Looking to the new thread

 

[SicOne]

Welcome back, Praetor!