"I can't control Ira Behr ..."

[Bad Thoughts]

I don't believe Braga was ever "in charge" on Voyager, or if he was, it was a very short time. The timelines just don't match up for him to have been in charge for any substantial amount of time.

He was the showrunner for two years. Kenneth Biller says that he was brought back to run the writing staff after Braga's falling out with Moore, and after that Braga was brought onto the Enterprise pilot/proposal, at which point Biller became the showrunner.

 

[Triskelion]

I think it says a lot when you ask a Star Trek producer to help you with your Star Trek series and he a) has never seen it, and b) tells you that he doesn't even like the concept or the characters. Like they were seeking his pre-launch seal of approval rather than, oh say, the hard work of writing some ideas during the actual run. I guess he didn't get his opinion of the concept or the characters at that point was ENTIRELY MOOT. (And - a poor engineer blames his tools).

I wonder if we wore sunglasses indoors for their meeting the way he wore sunglasses indoors for his DS9 DVD interviews. At least he got his from that Star Trek thing.

You know, sometimes, with concepts like Sisko's messianic conversion and episodes like Fury and TATV - you really have to wonder if the producers don't secretly hold their own audiences in contempt. Or maybe it's just their Hollywood cynicism showing its true colors. They think they're too clever for people to see what they're doing.

Star Trek is after all, just entertainment - but people who make fun of the show or its fans shouldn't be let anywhere near the set. Let alone cash their paycheck from it while making fun of other people who try to actually create something worth watching, considering - and remembering.

Yes, Enterprise wasn't the best Trek series - but it could have been as great as any of them. There was nothing wrong with the concept. As a matter of fact it was a lot closer to Roddenberry's original concept than creating some kind of mock Captain Jesus as a surrogate for your own Old Testament contempt for the New Testament.

Oh, were we not supposed to recognize the invalidation of a certain mainstream religion or two through the ostensible "respect" of a fictional religion and paper-thin surrogate for Messianism? Interesting, so when exactly was Roddenberry hoping to center the Star Trek theme on the invalidation of personal belief systems that don't agree with one's own?

There's a little more blunt honesty for them since they appreciate it so much.

You know what we're not talking about right now? How Ira Behr saved Enterprise, because he not only didn't - he obviously couldn't.

 

[eyeresist]

Went on a tangent there.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I wonder if we wore sunglasses indoors for their meeting the way he wore sunglasses indoors for his DS9 DVD interviews. At least he got his from that Star Trek thing.

There's an interview online somewhere where Behr said he started wearing sunglasses a few years out of college and haven't taken them off sense. That's a bit of hyperbole, of course, but sunglasses do appear in almost every photo I've seen of him.

I say almost every photo, because there are a few (in dark rooms) where he wears regular prescription glasses. That implies that his sunglasses are probably prescription too, and he probably wears them unless there's a reason not to. I've seen images of him in DS9 BTS photos with both regular glasses and sunglasses.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Ira isn't a fan of Star Trek's positive vision of the future, belief in the perfectibility of humankind and it's reliance on technology to solve problems. Especially inherent to the 24th Century, which everything bar DS9 basically stands for.

A bit disappointed in him not seeing a bigger picture to Enterprise, and the room for improvement, DS9 included, had to undergo to last 7 seasons. But he obviously figured there was no possibility of him working within an established set-up like that anyway... not at that stage in his career - off elsewhere being a full showrunner and not the hired hand he was on TNG and early DS9. And the unvarnished truth galvanised Enterprise with a "fuck the blue bearded twat" attitude, and they did their own season-long arc to largely good effect.

 

[Sci]

Ira isn't a fan of Star Trek's positive vision of the future, belief in the perfectibility of humankind and it's reliance on technology to solve problems. Especially inherent to the 24th Century, which everything bar DS9 basically stands for.

I don't agree that Behr isn't a fan of Star Trek's vision of a progressive, optimistic future. It's that he's an artist first and recognizes that storytelling is built on conflict, and that a story about a better future eventually has to challenge and deconstruct that better world in order to reaffirm it. People who are saints because they always have the ability to easily make good choices are not good subjects of a story, nor good examples of a positive future.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I don't agree that Behr isn't a fan of Star Trek's vision of a progressive, optimistic future.

It's more accurate to say that he wasn't a fan of TNG, based specifically on his experiences on the series.

 

[BillJ]

Oh, were we not supposed to recognize the invalidation of a certain mainstream religion or two through the ostensible "respect" of a fictional religion and paper-thin surrogate for Messianism?

I never needed Star Trek to make the personal realization that religion is hogwash designed to control the masses.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Alrighty, guys...debates about religion are best taken to Miscellaneous or The Neutral Zone. Thanks.

 

[BillJ]

It's more accurate to say that he wasn't a fan of TNG, based specifically on his experiences on the series.

Seems odd he would stick around then.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Seems odd he would stick around then.

He didn't. He left TNG, and ended up coming back years later for DS9.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Seems odd he would stick around then.

He didn't.

 

[Tim Thomason]

The title of this thread makes me envision a scenario where Ira Steven Behr goes berserk and starts wrecking up the set of Deep Space Nine.

 

[The Wormhole]

There's an interview online somewhere where Behr said he started wearing sunglasses a few years out of college and haven't taken them off sense. That's a bit of hyperbole, of course, but sunglasses do appear in almost every photo I've seen of him.

I always like the story of when Michael Piller let Behr read the script for Insurrection. After he was done, Piller asked him his opinion, and Behr let out a deep breath and took his sunglasses off. The removal of the sunglasses was a clear sign to Piller that Behr didn't approve of the script.

 

[BillJ]

He didn't. He left TNG, and ended up coming back years later for DS9.

But he came back to work for the same people who were running TNG.

 

[SPCTRE]

if this thread was a stealth advert for 50YM Pt. 2 then it was a complete success, OP

book's on my wishlist.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But he came back to work for the same people who were running TNG.

He came back to work for and replace Piller, under the notion that he would be allowed to run the show based on his own ideas AND with the belief that Roddenberry-style interference had passed away.

 

[Cyke101]

Ira isn't a fan of Star Trek's positive vision of the future, belief in the perfectibility of humankind and it's reliance on technology to solve problems. Especially inherent to the 24th Century, which everything bar DS9 basically stands for.

I sincerely doubt that, considering DS9 ended with the Federation standing proud and tall thanks in large part to the DS9 crew sticking to their Federation ideals (best represented when Sisko and Ross pour their blood wine to mourn for all the deceased and show their disgust at the cost, rather than celebrate with Martok). It seemed to me that to best understand how a positive future came into being in the first place, to deconstruct and analyze the pains it took to get there.

With that said, and back to the topic, as the years go by I find myself much more sympathetic with Braga. He seems like a decent enough guy. Certainly I didn't like half of what he wrote or guided, but he owns up to his mistakes, and he's good in the collaborative process. But I can't say the same for Berman, at least from the stories I've heard coming from DS9 crew like Behr, Moore, and Terry Ferrell, but then others such as Majel Roddenberry, Wheaton, Beltran, Blalock, the overall prevention of gay/queer characters, sexualizing female cast members, etc. Yeah, he was their boss, but it seems that there's a large consensus that he wasn't good for the creative process of his employees, either.

 

[LJones41]

I sincerely doubt that, considering DS9 ended with the Federation standing proud and tall thanks in large part to the DS9 crew sticking to their Federation ideals (best represented when Sisko and Ross pour their blood wine to mourn for all the deceased and show their disgust at the cost, rather than celebrate with Martok).

Was this before or after Sisko manipulated the Romulans into the Dominion War?

 

[The Wormhole]

Was this before or after Sisko manipulated the Romulans into the Dominion War?

After. Also after it was revealed Admiral Ross was working with Section 31.