"I can't control Ira Behr ..."

[Bad Thoughts]

I've been listening through the audio version of Fifty Year Mission, Vol. 2, and there are certainly interesting moments that jump out, doing a lot to enlighten the tensions behind the writing and production of the 24th C-set series. This section, in which Bryan Fuller paraphrases Rick Berman, had me dumbstruck. It concerns Berman's response to Brannon Braga concerning the direction of Voyager. Apparently, Braga wanted to turn the show more toward hard sci-fi, in the process showing the crew embracing more hybridization of the ship as they were forced to incorporate more and more alien technology.

No, you can't do that, because I can't control Ira Behr on Deep Space Nine, and I have to control you [Braga].

If true, it shows truly stunning anxieties.

 

[BillJ]

I think I'm going to call bullshit on this. If Berman had issues with Behr he could have fired him, or reined in his authority.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think I'm going to call bullshit on this. If Berman had issues with Behr he could have fired him, or reined in his authority.

I think that would have caused more problems than it would have solved: throughout the book, the writiting staff/producers express deep debts to Behr, mentoring them as well as protecting them from Berman. There is a sense of a strong bond within the staff of DS9.

 

[OtherGene]

I think I'm going to call bullshit on this. If Berman had issues with Behr he could have fired him, or reined in his authority.

It's not always easy to rein in your star player.

 

[BillJ]

It's not always easy to rein in your star player.

Ratings slid throughout DS9's run. That would've been all the justification Berman would've needed. I'm glad he didn't fire Behr, I tend to like him as a writer. But I don't buy that Berman couldn't control him.

 

[Christopher]

I heard once from somebody -- I forget who -- that Berman found Behr physically intimidating (he's a pretty big, tough-looking guy) and thus had trouble saying "no" to him.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't think it's so much a case of Berman couldn't control Behr as it was he didn't have to, DS9 wasn't attached to a network, it essentially had carte blanche, whereas Voyager had to conform to UPN's wishes, which as we know was to basically do TNG Lite.

 

[Destructor]

Fuller has talked about how he wished he were on DS9, and that there were severe creative constraints on the Voyager team (this jibes roughly with Ron Moore's descriptions, also).

It's annoying Braga wasn't given more leeway as he did come up with some pretty crazy concepts in his time. That said, if Berman's vision of the show was for it to be like TOS/TNG (ie- contained episodes, no serious long term continuity, could watch episodes in more or less any order without large problems), then, well, as producer it was his right to maintain that vision. You may not like it, but it is the creator's choice.

 

[Hugo Rune]

In every interview I have seen/read of ISB he does come across as a "you wanna fuck with me, let's dance" kind of guy. From his Blue-Beard moment whilst producing the 4400, to his brutal honesty towards B&B when they asked him in to review ENT, he says what he says and does what he does without fear or much of a filter.

Frankly, as arrogant as that is, it's what is needed in TV these days. As nice as Joss Whedon comes across, he's a massive ego wrapped in a pithy quip and some unfortunate hair. Same for the likes of Ron Moore, David E Kelly, JMS, Chris Carter and any creator out there. You want YOUR ideas on screen, you have to stand and fight for them, as well as stand and fight for the team you are producing with.

Berman was management, interested in the corporate image and massaging networks, ratings and press. Michael Piller, ISB, were about the story and the characters. They were always going to be at loggerheads. Anyway, Berman always seemed to have that look on his face of "one more thing and I might lose it", that same face that Rick McCallum had on the SW Prequels.

And his loyalty to his writing staff shows, even today, having worked with and for some of his junior writers on their shows (Echevarria with Dark Angel/4440, RHW on Alphas and RDM on Outlander). People follow him and come to him for advice etc.

Hugo - Not convinced Berman inspired any such loyalty as a leader.

 

[Christopher]

Berman was management, interested in the corporate image and massaging networks, ratings and press. Michael Piller, ISB, were about the story and the characters. They were always going to be at loggerheads.

That's an interesting thought. It may shed some light on why Braga's shows weren't as impressive. People who criticize Braga tend to give him sole blame for everything they don't like, but the fact is that Braga has always been a team player, a collaborator. On ST, he usually worked with writing partners (Ron Moore, Joe Menosky, Berman), and his career as a showrunner has consisted of supervising shows that other people created (Voyager, Threshold, 24, Terra Nova, Cosmos) or that he co-created with partners (Enterprise with Berman, FlashForward with David S. Goyer and loosely based on the Robert J. Sawyer novel, Salem with Adam Simon). He's not a solo auteur like Behr or Whedon or JMS or the others you mention; he's someone who works with other people to help them realize their visions. So maybe he wouldn't have pushed back against Berman and other executives the way Piller or Behr would have, wouldn't have asserted as strong and clear a creative vision.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That said, if Berman's vision of the show was for it to be like TOS/TNG (ie- contained episodes, no serious long term continuity, could watch episodes in more or less any order without large problems), then, well, as producer it was his right to maintain that vision.

I don't think that Berman ever had a vision of Star Trek that included making it like TOS. Which was part of the problem with Enterprise.

In every interview I have seen/read of ISB he does come across as a "you wanna fuck with me, let's dance" kind of guy. From his Blue-Beard moment whilst producing the 4400, to his brutal honesty towards B&B when they asked him in to review ENT, he says what he says and does what he does without fear or much of a filter.

I agree that fighting for your vision is what is needed in a showrunner. Without that, you're just going to get a show that's like every other show out there.

Is Behr's feedback on ENT available anywhere online? That would be interesting to read.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I doubt we'll ever see the full breakdown of his feedback, but he did make the below comments about the meeting in general:

Around 2003, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga asked Behr for his opinion on Star Trek: Enterprise and to offer suggestions on how to improve that series. Behr commented "Rick called me up, it was his initiative. He asked me had I seen Enterprise, I told him no. He asked if I could look at it - they were thinking maybe of stepping back and that "this be another DS9 experience," whatever that meant. I didn't really think it over in terms of what were the chances of that reality happening again. They sent me the three shows, I went in, had a two hour meeting with Rick and Brannon. It was a very cordial meeting, but everything I said I am sure they did not like hearing. I would not liked to have heard it if someone came into my office and talked as bluntly as I was talking to them. Though again, it was done all cordially. After it was over I am sure they were uncomfortable, I was very uncomfortable, we shook hands, Rick said, "well, all interesting stuff, we'll think it over," and I never heard from him again. That's the whole story and it's barely a blip in anyone's lives, it has no impact whatsoever on the franchise. It's just something that happened". [X]wbm Ten years later, in 2013, Brannon Braga bluntly recalled that he thought Behr "shit all over the show" during the meeting and that Behr "hated the concept, hated the characters." (ENT Season 2 Blu-ray "Course Correction" special feature)

From http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ira_Steven_Behr

Hugo

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Thanks, Hugo! Oh, to be a fly on that wall...

 

[eyeresist]

I think I'm going to call bullshit on this. If Berman had issues with Behr he could have fired him, or reined in his authority.

Yes, if Behr had been a serious problem, Berman would have fired him.

Consider the source of this gossip: someone paraphrasing something they recall (second hand?) from years ago.
Berman could have said anything. He could have meant anything by it. Who knows? Not us, that's for sure.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Yes, if Behr had been a serious problem, Berman would have fired him.

Consider the source of this gossip: someone paraphrasing something they recall (second hand?) from years ago.
Berman could have said anything. He could have meant anything by it. Who knows? Not us, that's for sure.

Potentially, Berman could have. However, it would likely have caused severe turmoil. There is clearly a sense among the writers--those who worked with him on DS9 but especially those who credit him for taking the reins of the writing staff in TNG season 3 and creating stability--that he protected them from Berman. Moore, Echevaria, Wolfe, Biemler, Michael Taylor, Bryan Fuller, etc., all expressed their deep appreciation for Behr and, to varying extents, their loathing of the tedious involvements with Berman. Firing Behr would have caused chaos.

The point Fuller was trying to make, though, was not concerning some sort of necessity of office politics on Berman's part, but the extent to which he might be manipulative. He is demeaning Braga, making him feel less comfortable in his authority and trying to deny him any autonomy he might see in Behr.

 

[eyeresist]

How was he demeaning Braga? By saying he wasn't out of control?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

How was he demeaning Braga? By saying he wasn't out of control?

By saying that he could never fully be in control, that he would never have the complete power of his position as showrunner, and by insisting on a very paternalistic relationship.

 

[eyeresist]

I think you're reading a lot into it. Berman was actually in charge of Star Trek at that time.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think you're reading a lot into it. Berman was actually in charge of Star Trek at that time.

No, I am not. Fuller makes other statements that would seem to support this. He even says that Berman played Braga and Moore off of one another, Berman saying that he should have picked Moore instead of Braga to helm Voyager. Fuller's accuracy, perhaps honesty, may be up for debate, but his meaning is clear.

 

[BillJ]

He even says that Berman played Braga and Moore off of one another, saying that Berman should have picked Moore instead of Braga to helm Voyager.

I don't believe Braga was ever "in charge" on Voyager, or if he was, it was a very short time. The timelines just don't match up for him to have been in charge for any substantial amount of time.