Nana Visitor says no to Vedek Kira

[DS9Continuing]

Yeah, with Ro and Kira being so similar, it does feel a little redundant to have Kira leave, and then just put Ro in charge.

I see it more like Ro is replacing Sisko, and Cenn is replacing Kira, in spirit if not in function. With the Ro/Cenn command team, we now have the same model we had when the TV series started - a Starfleet commander who has a connection to Bajor that they do not entirely embrace, and a Bajoran Militia XO who does not believe Starfleet has any business being there at all.

With Bajor being the in Federation now, there are still plenty of other things she could do in the system if she wanted to leave DS9. She wouldn't even need to move up, she could just move to a similar position somewhere else. But there's really no reason she would have to leave the station in the first place, we've seen plenty of people commanding the same ship/crew for decades.

To me, it was never Kira's dream to be in Starfleet. She had any number of chances to convert, Sisko would have sponsored her in a second if she asked. But even after her objections to Starfleet's very presence died down, she had no particular desire to be one of them. She converted when Bajor finally joined the Federation at the end of 'season 8' mostly just because it was what was expected, not because she was thinking, "Finally!"

Then her character arc in 'season 9' is about trying to figure out if she is good enough to be a Starfleet captain. The conclusion is obviously that she is. But then her character arc in my 'season 10' was the next question in line - yes she can be a Starfleet captain, but does she want to be? And the answer to that one is no. When there comes conflict between the way Starfleet does things and the way Bajor does things, she would choose Bajor every time.

Ro, on the other hand, doesn't have as close or instinctive a connection to Bajor, which is why she doesn't have the same conflicts with Starfleet. She has whole different conflicts.

.

 

[JD]

I meant more in terms of general personality, not specifics like that.

 

[locutus101]

I think the normal progression was for Kira to become a general.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I agree entirely that Kira as Vedek or Kai doesn't work. To me, if she was going anywhere that involved leaving the military, it was probably into Bajoran government. But regarding her fast-tracking in the order: she was Sisko's right-hand person. If one of Christ's disciples provably came back today, I don't think it would be long before the Vatican would be offering to let him be a Cardinal, at the least.

 

[locutus101]

I agree entirely that Kira as Vedek or Kai doesn't work. To me, if she was going anywhere that involved leaving the military, it was probably into Bajoran government. But regarding her fast-tracking in the order: she was Sisko's right-hand person. If one of Christ's disciples provably came back today, I don't think it would be long before the Vatican would be offering to let him be a Cardinal, at the least.

I think if Jesus himself came back today the Vatican would reject him for being a fake.

 

[Jarvisimo]

^^ Well that's human

Anyway definitely not one for this board.

I agree entirely that Kira as Vedek or Kai doesn't work. To me, if she was going anywhere that involved leaving the military, it was probably into Bajoran government.

That might have been interesting - Kira in Asarem's government. Although that reminds me of the probs viewers had with 'too much' Bajoran politics, lol. Anyway government wasn't what DRG chose; in any case, we'll see what happens next

 

[starri]

I see it more like Ro is replacing Sisko, and Cenn is replacing Kira, in spirit if not in function. With the Ro/Cenn command team, we now have the same model we had when the TV series started - a Starfleet commander who has a connection to Bajor that they do not entirely embrace, and a Bajoran Militia XO who does not believe Starfleet has any business being there at all.

Until DRG3 decided to remove Ro's most distinctive trait, her atheism. And yes, I'm still angry about that.

 

[locutus101]

Until DRG3 decided to remove Ro's most distinctive trait, her atheism. And yes, I'm still angry about that.

Wasn't Ro killed along with the rest of the Maquis when the Dominion massacred them?

 

[DS9Continuing]

Wasn't Ro killed along with the rest of the Maquis when the Dominion massacred them?

Apparently not - perhaps you're not familiar with the DS9 novel line, but she came back to Bajor after the war, took over as security chief on the station after Odo's departure, rejoined Starfleet when Bajor joined the Federation, and rose through the ranks to eventually become captain of the station once all its other commanders had moved on to other things. She's very much alive in the books.

Until DRG3 decided to remove Ro's most distinctive trait, her atheism. And yes, I'm still angry about that.

Yeah, I was not happy with that either. There is a tendency in American media to think that having a religion of some kind is the default position and anyone who doesn't is weird. It was nice to have a character who just didn't give a shit about that. Not to mention it was the thing that set her apart from other Bajorans.

I try to make it more palatable to myself by remembering that she hasn't become a fervent believer, only opened herself to the possibility. You might say she's moved from atheist to agnostic.

There are definitely plenty of things I am not entirely happy with in DRG3's vision of the ongoing DS9 adventures. I just try to figure out a way to make them fit in with my own vision and that of the other authors, so that I can feel happier about it.

.

 

[locutus101]

Apparently not - perhaps you're not familiar with the DS9 novel line, but she came back to Bajor after the war, took over as security chief on the station after Odo's departure, rejoined Starfleet when Bajor joined the Federation, and rose through the ranks to eventually become captain of the station once all its other commanders had moved on to other things. She's very much alive in the books.

.

I see.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Until DRG3 decided to remove Ro's most distinctive trait, her atheism. And yes, I'm still angry about that.

It's hard to be an atheist when your gods are demonstrably real and have wielded great power throughout the quadrant.

 

[Christopher]

It's hard to be an atheist when your gods are demonstrably real and have wielded great power throughout the quadrant.

Not really. The wormhole aliens are demonstrably real, yes, but that doesn't require one to interpret them as divinities. After all, there have been cultures that worshipped the Sun, the Moon, the sky, the sea, the land, the winds, animals, rivers, etc. as gods. All of those things are demonstrably real, but the question of whether they exist is distinct from the question of whether they are divine.

 

[Jinn]

Wait Ro is religous now? I must have missed that. Ro did say in one episode or novel that she does not think the wormhole aliens don't exist, but rather that they aren't gods, which just should have been reinforced by them being responsible for the Ascendants, right?

 

[jaime]

Until DRG3 decided to remove Ro's most distinctive trait, her atheism. And yes, I'm still angry about that.

That's her most distinctive trait? Really? It was barely even mentioned on screen beyond a 'I have my doubts' moment.
Her being angry grr bunny, being a redeemed black sheep of starfleet, being a sympathiser with two different groups of what might be called terrorists, being something of a protege of a famous starfleet captain, her insistence on displaying her cultural heritage.....I would say these things define the character more than her atheism. And I say this has something of Ro fan from her first appearance. Atheism in a Bajoran should almost be impossible...they literally had their Messiah turn up and work in admin. Everything else is just left hanging as semantics and choice over what interpretation a character chooses. The Prophets are Gods to Bajor, and Wormhole Aliens to Starfleet, and neither designation is incorrect. That's pretty much Ds9 in a nutshell.

To paraphrase.

It's all true. Especially the scripture.

 

[Jinn]

That's her most distinctive trait? Really? It was barely even mentioned on screen beyond a 'I have my doubts' moment.
Her being angry grr bunny, being a redeemed black sheep of starfleet, being a sympathiser with two different groups of what might be called terrorists, being something of a protege of a famous starfleet captain, her insistence on displaying her cultural heritage.....I would say these things define the character more than her atheism. And I say this has something of Ro fan from her first appearance. Atheism in a Bajoran should almost be impossible...they literally had their Messiah turn up and work in admin. Everything else is just left hanging as semantics and choice over what interpretation a character chooses. The Prophets are Gods to Bajor, and Wormhole Aliens to Starfleet, and neither designation is incorrect. That's pretty much Ds9 in a nutshell.

To paraphrase.

It's all true. Especially the scripture.

Though that set her aside from Kira, who also was angry at times, not so fond of Starfleet, though that changed over time, was member in a cell that was classified as a terrorist organisation by the Cardassians, probably not by starfleet and she too was a "protegé" of sorts of Sisko. Ro is a little bit more extreme in all these things but she and Kira have very distinct opinions on religion. And as Christopher already pointed out, there is a difference between saying that the wormhole aliens exist and saying they're gods. I'd argue that unkillability (is that even a real word?) is an important trait to a devine creature, the DS9 space station could murder all prophets quite quickly as seen in DS9: "The Assignment".

 

[locutus101]

Wait Ro is religous now? I must have missed that. Ro did say in one episode or novel that she does not think the wormhole aliens don't exist, but rather that they aren't gods, which just should have been reinforced by them being responsible for the Ascendants, right?

The Ascendants?

 

[VDCNI]

That's her most distinctive trait? Really? It was barely even mentioned on screen beyond a 'I have my doubts' moment.
Her being angry grr bunny, being a redeemed black sheep of starfleet, being a sympathiser with two different groups of what might be called terrorists, being something of a protege of a famous starfleet captain, her insistence on displaying her cultural heritage.....I would say these things define the character more than her atheism. And I say this has something of Ro fan from her first appearance. Atheism in a Bajoran should almost be impossible...they literally had their Messiah turn up and work in admin. Everything else is just left hanging as semantics and choice over what interpretation a character chooses. The Prophets are Gods to Bajor, and Wormhole Aliens to Starfleet, and neither designation is incorrect. That's pretty much Ds9 in a nutshell.

To paraphrase.

It's all true. Especially the scripture.

In the books they have done more with it - especially the early ones - by playing up the contrast between her and Kira.

As has been mentioned she doesn't deny the existence of the Prophets just them being gods deserving of worship rather than just powerful aliens. Well she used to but not anymore apparently.

Now that she's Captain we've lost a great deal of the outsider/rebel feel of the character, it looks like we're losing the Quark relationship and now she seems to be moving towards viewing the Prophets the same way as any other Bajoran. Obviously characters shouldn't stay still - that gave Titan problems a few books ago - but she might as well not be the same character and none of the changes have really added anything to her that we haven't already seen from other characters, particularly Kira.

 

[locutus101]

In the books they have done more with it - especially the early ones - by playing up the contrast between her and Kira.

As has been mentioned she doesn't deny the existence of the Prophets just them being gods deserving of worship rather than just powerful aliens. Well she used to but not anymore apparently.

Now that she's Captain we've lost a great deal of the outsider/rebel feel of the character, it looks like we're losing the Quark relationship and now she seems to be moving towards viewing the Prophets the same way as any other Bajoran. Obviously characters shouldn't stay still - that gave Titan problems a few books ago - but she might as well not be the same character and none of the changes have really added anything to her that we haven't already seen from other characters, particularly Kira.

So her take on the prophets was pretty much the same as that of Jadzia then.

 

[jaime]

In the books they have done more with it - especially the early ones - by playing up the contrast between her and Kira.

As has been mentioned she doesn't deny the existence of the Prophets just them being gods deserving of worship rather than just powerful aliens. Well she used to but not anymore apparently.

Now that she's Captain we've lost a great deal of the outsider/rebel feel of the character, it looks like we're losing the Quark relationship and now she seems to be moving towards viewing the Prophets the same way as any other Bajoran. Obviously characters shouldn't stay still - that gave Titan problems a few books ago - but she might as well not be the same character and none of the changes have really added anything to her that we haven't already seen from other characters, particularly Kira.

She's definitely all over the place atm. The order they release the books in is not helping at all.

 

[OtherGene]

Good for Visitor. Damn right Kira should be out commanding a ship and generally kicking ass. Sitting about reading holy books and calling everybody "child" just wouldn't be right.