Okay, so it's not just the creators and writers of Voyager who doesn't know how a computer program works, but Sophie74656, too.
Doctor Observation
- Thread starter Six of Twelve
- Start date
well then explain it to me.Okay, so it's not just the creators and writers of Voyager who doesn't know how a computer program works, but Sophie74656, too.
It's simply a case of taking the "Doctor is a person" thing too far for the sake of creating a nominal amount of drama. It would make sense that Voyager would have some sort of offline backup for all basic Starfleet-provided data on the system. Transporters, bridge-consoles, the Doctor... everything.
If it did not, then what would happen if the storage medium (isolinear, gel-pac, whatever) got damaged, or infected by an alien compute virus (I mean, really did we learn nothing watching Independence Day
) ?
You could then rebuild or replace the damaged system physically, but without a backup you would need to re-write the software that it runs it, or forensically recover the data and copy it over (which might not even be possible).
Secondly, as far as transporting the Doctor is concerned, I can buy that you might be able to set up a "connection" with the Prometheus over this network, and you might even be able to transfer him over it, but the job of the computer at that point is to read the data and send it. To delete his program, as Kahless implied, the system would need to actively write data over it, and there's simply no reason to do that. The crew would have to be intentionally trying to delete all traces in order to lose him.
Less drastically, even when you move a file from one location to another on your computer, you are copying it, then deleting the old one by removing references to it in the file system portion of your code to reclaim the space. All that data still exists until its overwritten sometime in the future, it's just a little harder to get to.
This is all, of course, assuming computer storage in Star Trek is anything like computer storage today. Then the whole thing fails on 3 levels -
there's no reason to delete him
even if you did, there's not necessarily no hope of getting him back.
Voyager HAS to have backups of essential software, or someone like Harry Kim has to have committed all the code to run those systems to memory (and more or less perfectly so)
If it did not, then what would happen if the storage medium (isolinear, gel-pac, whatever) got damaged, or infected by an alien compute virus (I mean, really did we learn nothing watching Independence Day
) ?You could then rebuild or replace the damaged system physically, but without a backup you would need to re-write the software that it runs it, or forensically recover the data and copy it over (which might not even be possible).
Secondly, as far as transporting the Doctor is concerned, I can buy that you might be able to set up a "connection" with the Prometheus over this network, and you might even be able to transfer him over it, but the job of the computer at that point is to read the data and send it. To delete his program, as Kahless implied, the system would need to actively write data over it, and there's simply no reason to do that. The crew would have to be intentionally trying to delete all traces in order to lose him.
Less drastically, even when you move a file from one location to another on your computer, you are copying it, then deleting the old one by removing references to it in the file system portion of your code to reclaim the space. All that data still exists until its overwritten sometime in the future, it's just a little harder to get to.
This is all, of course, assuming computer storage in Star Trek is anything like computer storage today. Then the whole thing fails on 3 levels -
there's no reason to delete him
even if you did, there's not necessarily no hope of getting him back.
Voyager HAS to have backups of essential software, or someone like Harry Kim has to have committed all the code to run those systems to memory (and more or less perfectly so)
I
Does this mean they could have recovered the Doctor from the Equinox? He was on Voyager when he was deleted.
Does this also mean that the Doctor could have copied himself while the original went off to be a singing star in Virtuoso?
There was some kind of 'training Doctor' file in the system because we saw it in Critical Care.
It's simply a case of taking the "Doctor is a person" thing too far for the sake of creating a nominal amount of drama. It would make sense that Voyager would have some sort of offline backup for all basic Starfleet-provided data on the system. Transporters, bridge-consoles, the Doctor... everything.
If it did not, then what would happen if the storage medium (isolinear, gel-pac, whatever) got damaged, or infected by an alien compute virus (I mean, really did we learn nothing watching Independence Day
You could then rebuild or replace the damaged system physically, but without a backup you would need to re-write the software that it runs it, or forensically recover the data and copy it over (which might not even be possible).
Secondly, as far as transporting the Doctor is concerned, I can buy that you might be able to set up a "connection" with the Prometheus over this network, and you might even be able to transfer him over it, but the job of the computer at that point is to read the data and send it. To delete his program, as Kahless implied, the system would need to actively write data over it, and there's simply no reason to do that. The crew would have to be intentionally trying to delete all traces in order to lose him.
Less drastically, even when you move a file from one location to another on your computer, you are copying it, then deleting the old one by removing references to it in the file system portion of your code to reclaim the space. All that data still exists until its overwritten sometime in the future, it's just a little harder to get to.
This is all, of course, assuming computer storage in Star Trek is anything like computer storage today. Then the whole thing fails on 3 levels -
there's no reason to delete him
even if you did, there's not necessarily no hope of getting him back.
Voyager HAS to have backups of essential software, or someone like Harry Kim has to have committed all the code to run those systems to memory (and more or less perfectly so)
Does this mean they could have recovered the Doctor from the Equinox? He was on Voyager when he was deleted.
Does this also mean that the Doctor could have copied himself while the original went off to be a singing star in Virtuoso?
There was some kind of 'training Doctor' file in the system because we saw it in Critical Care.
I believe it is Message In A Bottle, Ship In A Bottle is a TNG episode.
They never really explained what that meant. Was it part of some virtual lesson for trainee doctors?
I doubt it, since he kept making the same prescription for everything.
Honestly, I don't remember Equinox that well, or what happened to the other Doctor. However if the data for that program was on the Voyager ships computer storage, it may have been recoverable. Once a file is deleted from the file system, the locations that data is/was stored in can be used for new data at any time. So, if the Doctor was immediately overwritten by somebody's transporter diagnostic for example, then he's gone. If nothing was written over him, then yes they could likely get him back.
Yes, I don't see why not. Moreover I don't see why Voyager couldn't run multiple doctors for mass casualty situations. It's been shown the Sick bay emitters could handle at least 2 simultaneous holograms. One feature of network storage is the ability to have 2 instances of data which aren't actually complete copies, but rather with one storing just the difference between it and its predecessor. Typically, it's used to have more efficient storage of regular backups, with any common data is referenced from a single source. A similar scheme could be used to theoretically run 2 doctors without storing 2 complete doctors.
Following the storage dilemma a bit further, the mobile emitter presents the same challenge as the transfer problem. The ME must have a copy of the Doctor on its own storage device, otherwise the Doc couldn't be autonomous while on it. Why not simply copy the him once onto the ME and then run the original in sickbay as well?
Again this is all assuming that Trek computers function the way ours do, and in a fictional world you can cook up almost any excuse for why something will or will not work. The job of the writers is to tell a story that makes us feel something, and if the realities of computer science get in the way of what they think is a good story, I don't hold that against them for ignoring it. They arent trying to design systems, after all.
The EMH is a computer program all be it a very complex one, but you could simply instruct the computer to create a backup every time the EMH program is deactivated.
And yet no one on board ever thought of that. They're not that bright.
What's funny is some fanfiction writers have thought about it.
Some stories would have to be re-written, though.
Heck, I still don't understand why they moved (rather than copied) the Doctor to the portable emitter every time either. Especially seeing as how terrified they were of losing him in a few episodes. Whatever mumbojumbo rationale you try to come up with for the ship to only be able to run one copy of him due to hardware concerns, the portable emitter clearly had the hardware to run a copy of him independently of the ship. So even those rationales make no effin' sense.
Just such a horrifically bad understanding of computers by the writers/creators.
Just such a horrifically bad understanding of computers by the writers/creators.
Heck, I still don't understand why they moved (rather than copied) the Doctor to the portable emitter every time either. Especially seeing as how terrified they were of losing him in a few episodes. Whatever mumbojumbo rationale you try to come up with for the ship to only be able to run one copy of him due to hardware concerns, the portable emitter clearly had the hardware to run a copy of him independently of the ship. So even those rationales make no effin' sense.
Just such a horrifically bad understanding of computers by the writers/creators.
I guess the computers of the future are more limited than our own, which of course doesn't make any sense.
I believe TNG's "Contagion" address restoring info from secure backup.
Internal coherence of a series is only found occasionally. Coherence with a previous series is almost miraculous.
That's because the problem isn't with computer science. Large corporations have lobbied Starfleet and the Federation for so long about intellectual property that future computers can no longer make copies without deleting the originals. To bypass this computer limitation is punishable by death (this is a little known clause in General order 4 (and/or 7)). It is General Order 7b and has lasted even after money was rendered obsolete
That's because the problem isn't with computer science. Large corporations have lobbied Starfleet and the Federation for so long about intellectual property that future computers can no longer make copies without deleting the originals. To bypass this computer limitation is punishable by death (this is a little known clause in General order 4 (and/or 7)). It is General Order 7b and has lasted even after money was rendered obsolete
I am dubious as to the usefulness of copyright laws in a currencyless economy...
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