Yeah, that's really bizarre. Plus they were able to simulate the other members of the crew (of Vina's ship that is). How can they do that if they don't know what they look like?
Event alluded to by Bryan Fuller.
- Thread starter CaptainDecker
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VINA: They found me in the wreckage, dying. A lump of flesh. They rebuilt me. Everything works. But they had never seen a human. They had no guide for putting me back together.
Her injuries were clearly very severe. Even if they could have derived an image of what a human properly looked like from her mind (and as others have said, even that might not be possible if she were unconscious or in a coma) it might not have been physically possible to produce that result from what they had to work with. Also, there's a great deal that general external appearance won't tell you about complex internal anatomy, and there's no reason to think Vina would have had extensive knowledge of the latter. Additionally, the Talosians had become inept even at repairing their own machinery, so why should they be any better at conducting major surgery on an alien species?
As for the Columbia computer banks, those would surely be badly damaged if not utterly destroyed in the crash, and as already said the Talosians would lack the technical capacity to fix them. And even if they hadn't lacked it, would there have been time before Vina succumbed to her injuries? They probably had to act hastily, and crudely, in order to save her life. Cosmetics were likely the least of their concerns.
Her injuries were clearly very severe. Even if they could have derived an image of what a human properly looked like from her mind (and as others have said, even that might not be possible if she were unconscious or in a coma) it might not have been physically possible to produce that result from what they had to work with. Also, there's a great deal that general external appearance won't tell you about complex internal anatomy, and there's no reason to think Vina would have had extensive knowledge of the latter. Additionally, the Talosians had become inept even at repairing their own machinery, so why should they be any better at conducting major surgery on an alien species?
As for the Columbia computer banks, those would surely be badly damaged if not utterly destroyed in the crash, and as already said the Talosians would lack the technical capacity to fix them. And even if they hadn't lacked it, would there have been time before Vina succumbed to her injuries? They probably had to act hastily, and crudely, in order to save her life. Cosmetics were likely the least of their concerns.
They were using instructions from IKEA.
They could have woken her up, long enough to read what she looked like in her mind. A beautiful girl like that was no doubt perfectly aware of her physique.
Even the most knowledgeable and skilled human surgeon cannot physically restore someone's appearance to what it once was when they have suffered catastrophically defacing injuries. What the Talosians could and did do, once they were able to read her mind, was give her the illusion of that appearance.
Your statement is not coherent with what was said in the episode.
It was said she was "a lump of flesh" when they found her! Sounds like pretty catastrophically defacing injuries to me.
But that wasn't the excuse given for her appearance.
The point is, even if they could just "have woken her up" and read her mind, that wouldn't give them what they'd need to do a better job than they did. And the fact that they weren't familiar with the complex details and nuances of human anatomy—which there's no reason to think Vina would be either—was a significant additional disadvantage that a human surgeon wouldn't face, so it's quite a miracle that they could even get "everything work[ing]" let alone make her pretty!
If someone is severely mangled and burned, a perfect photograph of what they looked like before that is not going magically make it physically possible to reconstruct that appearance from what's left, nor guide an untrained set of hands in how to achieve the best possible result. What detailed knowledge of humans might have helped with is things like how to properly align and set bones, reconnect muscles and tendons and nerves for optimum functionality, how to prevent abscesses and minimize scarring, a whole slew of things that a specialist in reconstructive surgery and post-operative care would know much better than you or I. Vina was not suggested to be any kind of medic or doctor, let alone such a specialist, so there is no reason to think that anything in her mind would have helped with any of that. For all we know they did read it, and what little help that provided is the only reason things turned out as well as they did!
If someone is severely mangled and burned, a perfect photograph of what they looked like before that is not going magically make it physically possible to reconstruct that appearance from what's left, nor guide an untrained set of hands in how to achieve the best possible result. What detailed knowledge of humans might have helped with is things like how to properly align and set bones, reconnect muscles and tendons and nerves for optimum functionality, how to prevent abscesses and minimize scarring, a whole slew of things that a specialist in reconstructive surgery and post-operative care would know much better than you or I. Vina was not suggested to be any kind of medic or doctor, let alone such a specialist, so there is no reason to think that anything in her mind would have helped with any of that. For all we know they did read it, and what little help that provided is the only reason things turned out as well as they did!
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Best explanation: The Talosians are experts at alternate reality, not medicine.
When Vina said they fixed her, that everything works, I was like really? Let's see you do a few jumping jacks
She didn't say everything worked well. But she's not perpetually living at risk of sudden hemorrhage or stumbling everywhere.
Cue Maureen McGovern and John Williams
I do wonder if Vina looks like she did before the crash, or if her illusion is better looking than she ever was?
According to Number One Vina was a adult crewmember on the ship, then add 18 years. Vina would be ~ 40 plus.
Which she didn't look, of course she didn't look 18 either..
Quite so.
VINA: But they found it's a trap. Like a narcotic. Because when dreams become more important than reality, you give up travel, building, creating. You even forget how to repair the machines left behind by your ancestors. You just sit, living and reliving other lives left behind in the thought record.
The whole reason they wanted to breed a race of slaves in the first place was to serve as the artisans and technicians that they themselves had lost the capacity to be. Obviously they must have had some capacity for medicine to have saved Vina at all, but there's no reason to think it would be highly sophisticated.
Yeah, she can walk and talk, and obviously must be able to bear children, since that's what they were seeking. Not too shabby, all things considered.
Incidentally, if we're looking for flaws in the concept, the idea that they thought one breeding pair could give rise to a whole viable "society" might be a point of weakness. Of course, they did also have the other two women, but that's still a mighty small gene pool. Why not grab a few more, and some more men too, while they were at it? Heck, why not take the whole crew? Vina said that "with illusion they can make your crew work the wrong controls or push any button it takes to destroy your ship" so they ought to have been able to manage tricking at least some of them into beaming down and surrendering themselves just as readily. They picked Pike because he was "a prime specimen" but he actually turned out to be a harder sell than others aboard might have been, and beggars can't be choosers. It is all a bit of a silly premise, though it's still one of my favorite Star Trek stories nonetheless.
That's the problem with wanting a variety of personalities; the very biological diversity you seek means there's probably going to be somebody who will rebel or balk at your plans.
Actually, yeah it would. It was very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that they only screwed her up because they didn't have anything at all to go by. The implication being that if they did, such as a photograph, then they would have done a much better job.
It's even right there smack dab in the middle of one of the first quotes you posted. "But they had never seen a human."
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