Worf's Actions in Birthright

[Six of Twelve]

Do you think Worf did the right thing in Birthright or should he have minded his own business and left well enough alone?

As the community was mostly happy enough as it was and had lived in harmony before his arrival, I think he should have left well enough alone.

He took the view that there's only one "right" way to be a Klingon, which makes me roll my eyes. If the Klingons in this community had been in misery and obviously suffering, his actions would have been more understandabke, but they were not, so I see his actions as meddling where help had not been asked for.

 

[saladdays]

I voted no, as I lean that way, but I don't think there's a clear cut and dry answer.

It was great that a community of Klingons and Romulans could leave in harmony, but they (perhaps moreso the Klingons) were trapped there and unable to ever venture out into the "real" world. There was a lot of Klingon culture that was lost from them living there (and probably also Romulan culture as well). Obviously, the elders did not teach the younger ones all of this, but much of that probably had to do with keeping them there in that community and emphasizing the similarities between them rather than the differences and the years and years of mistrust.

That said, I do think Worf went too far in basically starting a rebellion without thinking of the bigger ramifications. I understand that he was initially concerned with just teaching the young Klingons the "ways" of being Klingon. There were probably some ways that Worf could have done this without causing a huge rift in the community. I mean, I know that there was pressure for Worf to not do anything at all, but I believe he could have worked better with the elders, both Romulan and Klingon alike.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Do you think Worf did the right thing in Birthright or should he have minded his own business and left well enough alone?

As the community was mostly happy enough as it was and had lived in harmony before his arrival, I think he should have left well enough alone.

He took the view that there's only one "right" way to be a Klingon, which makes me roll my eyes. If the Klingons in this community had been in misery and obviously suffering, his actions would have been more understandabke, but they were not, so I see his actions as meddling where help had not been asked for.

I couldn't disgree with you more.

'Suffering' does not exclusively mean pain. Just because the Klingons on the planet aren't being beaten daily doesn't meant hey aren't suffering.

I think Worf does the right thing by 'lifting the veil' on such a toxic state of affairs. The children are being lied to, not jsut about historical facts but also about their own culture and society. It's one huge case of Stockholm Syndrome that has gotten way, way out of hand.

No matter how it is dressed up, those Klingons are living their lives in a prison. There are armed guards, concrete walls and they are being fed a propaganda in order to control them and suppress any desires for rebellion. It is as fictional a state as one can imagine.

To state that the 'community was 'happy enough' is misguided. I'm sure there were many slave plantations where things were relatively docile but it doesn't mean that makes the situation in which people are living 'ok'.

The only issue I have really is, as you say, that Worf continues to paint his rosy portrayal of Klingon society which is not entirely true. If one were to take Worf at face-value, you would think the Empire couldn't probably have deceit and corruption which, as we know, it does. Still, I think he is well within his right to tell the children that they are being lied to, that they are prisoners on a colony and to also give them the chance to leave.

*Edit*

I also think the poll is scewed. 'Klingons must be warriors' is not the point Worf is actually making. It is 'people have the right to know the truth of their heritage, culture and have the right to explore it. Boiling it down to simply 'Klingons must be warriors' is patronising to the bigger issue he is attemtping to tackle. I.E that they are living in a prison.

 

[saladdays]

You make good points, TheGoodStuff, and I had forgotten some of the facts from that episode. However, I'm not sure if the slave plantation analogy is totally correct. Slave owners decent treatment of slaves didn't change the fact that they could interact with the outside world. The Romulans were not able to leave the planet.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Do you think Worf did the right thing in Birthright or should he have minded his own business and left well enough alone?

As the community was mostly happy enough as it was and had lived in harmony before his arrival, I think he should have left well enough alone.

He took the view that there's only one "right" way to be a Klingon, which makes me roll my eyes. If the Klingons in this community had been in misery and obviously suffering, his actions would have been more understandabke, but they were not, so I see his actions as meddling where help had not been asked for.

There isn't only one 'right' way to be Klingon, but the kids were never given the choice whether that was their way or not. Worf didn't force them to conform to his idea of being a Klingon, but he introduced to him the option.

 

[Finn]

I just watched both episodes.

Remember how Worf never really lived with Klingons. He probably has no clue that for millennia, most Klingons didn't live as warriors. I really hope there is a novel out there somewhere where Worf learns that the warrior's cry and the damn Klingon's heart beating is all BS, and that Kronos was once full of academics, doctors (real ones) and all that.

 

[suarezguy]

Do you think Worf did the right thing in Birthright or should he have minded his own business and left well enough alone?

As the community was mostly happy enough as it was and had lived in harmony before his arrival, I think he should have left well enough alone.

He took the view that there's only one "right" way to be a Klingon, which makes me roll my eyes. If the Klingons in this community had been in misery and obviously suffering, his actions would have been more understandabke, but they were not, so I see his actions as meddling where help had not been asked for.

I don't think he was arguing that Klingons *must* be warriors but he was arguing that the tradition was valid and at least should be considered. The young people in the community seemed happy enough and there was harmony because they didn't really know any context or alternatives (while the adult Klingons were pretty depressed). Worf certainly promoted and pushed for his interpretation of how to live but he was really for giving information and allowing individuals to make their own choices. It's often the case that most people promoting reform and greater freedom to choose are themselves strong partisans for one particular choice (such as a religious person might though might not be a particularly strong advocate of religious freedom) and that dedication may be necessary to motivate such actions.

 

[topcat]

actually I believe on an episode of DS9 or was it TNG where we first see the pain stick ceremony... that worf says to be a Klingon you must know and understand the ancient stories and myths. And understand the ancient ceremonies.

 

[Finn]

^That was back during the dark days of TNG (Pulaski was onboard), and when Worf truly didn't know shit about his people.

 

[saladdays]

^That was back during the dark days of TNG (Pulaski was onboard), and when Worf truly didn't know shit about his people.

I would say that most Klingons would still agree with that statement, though.

 

[Marsden]

This is an oversimplification, but Worf accidentally stumbles into a peaceful community and infects it with his prejudices. He's like the anti-MLK.
Worf's message is give hate a chance.
However they began, the people there were living together to the point where they had children together and were a community. There was no indication of brutality, (which was one of Worf's chief complaints, he likes brutality) and they were only staying secret because they knew the two parent cultures are so prejudiced that their community would never be accepted.
So, no, I do not agree with Worf.

 

[Vandervecken]

He "infects" it with choice. Also, he not incidentally gets the new generation introduced to the wider galaxy and the many greater wonders it holds, instead of them staying confined to this little, completely isolated community by fearful and inward-looking elders.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

This is an oversimplification, but Worf accidentally stumbles into a peaceful community and infects it with his prejudices. He's like the anti-MLK.
Worf's message is give hate a chance.
However they began, the people there were living together to the point where they had children together and were a community. There was no indication of brutality, (which was one of Worf's chief complaints, he likes brutality) and they were only staying secret because they knew the two parent cultures are so prejudiced that their community would never be accepted.
So, no, I do not agree with Worf.

So you're saying, if a parent locks their children in a room their whole lives and tells them nothing of the outside world and all the things they could possibly do with their lives, it's wrong for anyone to come in and interfere, just as long as the children are peaceful and happy? In The Matrix, Agent Smith was the protagonist?

The community was not a peaceful community. Imprisonment, slavery and forced ignorance are acts of violence. Freedom to realize all of one's potential is a human right/sapient being right.

 

[Finn]

^agreed, as they were Romulan guards ....

 

[Paradise City]

I think Worf approached this interestingly. He had the patience of a human in seeing past their dishonour and hasn't the hang ups that a typical Klingon would have but for the rest approached it like a Klingon might in that he excavated their true nature from what Klingons would identify as being docile sheep. It took merely a few hours for Toq to become that primal warrior Klingons are and of course Toq and the other youngsters had an irresistable thirst for more. None of the youngsters, including Worf left "hating" Romulans either. In a subtle way Worf seems to overcome some of his pointed hatred for Romulans that we saw in the third season. He sometimes stumbles throughout these brace of episodes (i.e his attitude to Ba'el) but in the end he does the right thing. This kind of character development makes for a nice and underrated brace of episodes.

 

[locutus101]

I think Worf was a complete asshole in this episode. He repaid Tokath's kindness with insults and violence.

 

[Vandervecken]

I think Worf was a complete asshole in this episode. He repaid Tokath's kindness with insults and violence.

I find Tokath very sympathetic. But let's not forget that he was close to enforcing his wishes from the end of a gun--that Worf faced potential death from Tokath, but not vice versa. The implied threat of violence was much greater from Tokath.

 

[locutus101]

I find Tokath very sympathetic. But let's not forget that he was close to enforcing his wishes from the end of a gun--that Worf faced potential death from Tokath, but not vice versa. The implied threat of violence was much greater from Tokath.

Tokath didn't see any other solution to protect his community against the actions of Worf. I'll say it was self-defense on a collective level. Worf could have stopped any time but he was glad to die, IE a complete asshole.

 

[Makarov]

I love this episode and Worf is pretty interesting here. He does come off badly a bit, but community's leaders were worse since they resort to violence against him. They also seemed to be deceiving their own people into living there. Worf was indeed being a bit of a douche since he wasn't saying "Here's another way to live" he was looking down on them and saying "you're wrong." At the same time though since they had no knowledge of their own people, he was pretty much correct.

 

[locutus101]

I love this episode and Worf is pretty interesting here. He does come off badly a bit, but community's leaders were worse since they resort to violence against him. They also seemed to be deceiving their own people into living there. Worf was indeed being a bit of a douche since he wasn't saying "Here's another way to live" he was looking down on them and saying "you're wrong." At the same time though since they had no knowledge of their own people, he was pretty much correct.

Knowledge is not neutral, especially in this case. One could easily construe it has having a corrupting influence. The way young people can be enticed into taking crack. Plus this "new life" is likely to prove very disappointing to the young Klingons, since we know how much value the Klingons attach to lineage and houses. They'll probably be despised and rejected for being of unknown origin (given that they swore not to reveal the location of the place where they're all born). So it may turn out that they'll end up hating Worf and wishing that he hadn't meddled in they carefree life.