Yeah, that must be why Beyond mentioned it so much, because it was so disappointing.
Hey, I think you found out why Beyond flopped.
Legal situation concerning the new TV series
- Thread starter Jinn
- Start date
Hey, I think you found out why Beyond flopped.
And of course Archer was mentioned way back in ST09.
So that must be the way the Kelvinverse works: the more disappointing a series is, the more it gets mentioned. Must be a lot of masochists at work on that writing staff! I'm convinced: they hate ENT so much they can't stop talking about it.
So that must be the way the Kelvinverse works: the more disappointing a series is, the more it gets mentioned. Must be a lot of masochists at work on that writing staff! I'm convinced: they hate ENT so much they can't stop talking about it.
I suppose. I'm just saying we may be attaching too much significance to a "tradition" that's not really that big a deal, IMHO, and that may well be a double-edged sword at this point. I mean, TOS was the one-and-only STAR TREK series when TNG debuted--hell, we didn't even call it "TOS" back then, it simply was STAR TREK as far as the entire world was concerned--so I can see the value in bringing in an iconic character like McCoy to give his blessing to . . . a new generation of STAR TREK? (What a wild idea!)
ENTERPRISE, by contrast, may well be gaining new fans, but it doesn't cast quite the same long shadow that the original STAR TREK did back in 1987. It's not like ENTERPRISE has been running in syndication for decades and inspired a series of feature films that's still going strong as the TOS movies were when TNG debuted.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not making a value judgment when I say that ENTERPRISE is perceived as a "disappointment" or commenting on its artistic merits. It's just that, as a matter of record, it did not achieve the popularity or commercial success of it predecessors and its cancellation brought the last wave of TREK tv to a premature end. It's the new show's job to turn things around, not to wax nostalgic about an era that's passed . . ..
Last edited:
Now I am imagining Scott Bakula turning up to give one last Stilted Archer Speech.
"Starfleet seems to think you're ready to begin your mission. Have any of you ever seen... a gazelle?"
Sure. I'm not saying I actually expect a pass-the-torch cameo -- just that it's not out of the question.
And I'm not convinced there won't be one. I'm just saying it's hardly a forgone conclusion because of some sort of "tradition." The new show has bigger things on its plate than tipping its hat to ENTERPRISE . ...
And I'm amused to see that you moved fast enough to reply to a paragraph that I ultimately deleted from my post in order to tighten it a bit. (What can I say? I'm editor. My first draft struck me as overly wordy and long-winded.)
Maybe Captain Garth will be there to see the Discovery off on its maiden voyage.
Whoopi was dropping hints this month that she would be available to do more Trek.
Do you mean "I'm an editor"?
Last edited:
The "cameo by a previous castmember" thing is clear demonstration of diminishing returns in action, IMO:
- DeForest Kelley in the TNG pilot - A great passing of the torch moment, and even touching. One of the few moments in "Encounter at Farpoint" that worked perfectly.
- Patrick Stewart in the DS9 pilot - Another good use of the actor. This is the only one that was really necessary from a plot standpoint, and it was pretty exciting to see the new Star Trek lead get in Picard's face in his first appearance (The Picard/O'Brien scene fell pretty flat, though).
- Armin Shimerman in the VOY pilot - Umm, well... Okay, I guess? It didn't really add anything and it wasn't necessary, IMO. By this point, it was clear they were doing it more for tradition than anything. Kind of a come down after having leads on the other pilots.
- James Cromwell in the ENT pilot - Another head-scratcher since he only had a part in one Trek movie, but their options were limited by the time period of the show. I guess it was a bit of a coup in getting someone primarily known for film work, though.
So I personally don't mind a bit if they leave this particular tradition in the dust. I'd much rather a strong pilot and a compelling story than more ST in-jokes, anyway. Trek needs to expand its audience, not keep playing to the same diminishing fanbase.
- DeForest Kelley in the TNG pilot - A great passing of the torch moment, and even touching. One of the few moments in "Encounter at Farpoint" that worked perfectly.
- Patrick Stewart in the DS9 pilot - Another good use of the actor. This is the only one that was really necessary from a plot standpoint, and it was pretty exciting to see the new Star Trek lead get in Picard's face in his first appearance (The Picard/O'Brien scene fell pretty flat, though).
- Armin Shimerman in the VOY pilot - Umm, well... Okay, I guess? It didn't really add anything and it wasn't necessary, IMO. By this point, it was clear they were doing it more for tradition than anything. Kind of a come down after having leads on the other pilots.
- James Cromwell in the ENT pilot - Another head-scratcher since he only had a part in one Trek movie, but their options were limited by the time period of the show. I guess it was a bit of a coup in getting someone primarily known for film work, though.
So I personally don't mind a bit if they leave this particular tradition in the dust. I'd much rather a strong pilot and a compelling story than more ST in-jokes, anyway. Trek needs to expand its audience, not keep playing to the same diminishing fanbase.
I always expect Picard to give a pep talk to O'Brien when he says, "It's just a transporter room," about how he's the safety net, and anyone on an away team could always count on O'Brien to get them back home if things got hairy. I'm probably mentally subbing in Roslin's speech about the Blackbird from BSG when I hear O'Brien minimize his old job, so I'm surprised when Picard just sort of shrugs like, "Yeah, I guess it is a pretty mundane job, actually."
That, and the bridge being staffed entirely by extras is weird.
Gamma shift get's no respect.
I think my problem with the Picard/O'Brien scene was that, when all was said & done, there wasn't much for the two of them to say to each other, as O'Brien was still a pretty hazily-conceived character at that point (which was half of the idea behind moving him to DS9, I suppose). About all we knew was that he enjoyed building ships in bottles, played poker occasionally, he was married to an Asian botanist named Keiko, and he'd served on the Rutledge under Captain Ben Maxwell and fought Cardassians. Heck, it took until the 4th season for the poor guy to even get a first name! Not a whole lot of mutual history with Picard for them to build a scene out of, despite all of his time on the show.
He's done several other Trek episodes, though. And the character of Cochrane was originally from TOS, so I thought it was a clever idea.
I think the final episode of TAS featuring Robert and Sarah April was pretty satisfying, too, even though the story was wacky.
[
Do you mean "I'm an editor"?
Arrgh! Clearly, I'm an editor who needs a copyeditor!
It was during Riker's poker game.
Nah, you just edited the "an" out.Arrgh! Clearly, I'm an editor who needs a copyeditor!
Similar threads
