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Spoilers Suicide Squad - Grading & Discussion

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Whatever the intention, the Joker's relationship with Harley was softened a lot. In the film as is, he's shown as someone who will stop at nothing to get her back. A perfect example is when he and his goons commandeer the chopper that's meant to extract Task Force-X. The only change in this scene is that in the original cut he pushes Harley out to save himself, in the edited version he pushes her out in an attempt to save her.

I agree with JD on this, as it's shown in the theatrical version, Joker and Harley's relationship is nowhere near as abusive as Christopher is (mistakenly) making it out to be. That could very well change when we get the Ultimate Super Duper cut on Bluray in a few months, but for the moment, I actually wanted to see Joker and Harley reunite.

Speaking of Joker, I can't wait to see more of Leto's version. I know a lot of people didn't like him, and some just felt he didn't have enough screentime, but I thought he was a great addition to the movie. I also liked how his subplot had almost nothing to do with the main storyline, he was just this figure of chaos who was weaving his own web in the narrative. I can't wait to see him clash with Affleck's Batman in a year or so.
 
Another thing I just thought of is the fact that we never see Harley resistant or afraid of or threatened by the Joker.
When he shocks her, she wants him to do it, she encourages him.
When she falls into the acid, she does entirely on her own. In fact we even see the Joker looking concerned for her.
When he kills the guy in the club he's, in his own way, defending her honor.
It is a pretty twisted realtionship, but they are both equally into it and it appears to work for them.
Honestly, thinking back over it a bit more, I don't know if we ever actually did see anything that would be considered abusive. I fell into calling it abusive because I saw other people doing it, but I really don't remember anything actually abusive in the final movie.
 
It's also worth mentioning that Harley's 'happy ending's was not just about reuniting with the Joker, it was also being freed from prison.
 
You also need to keep in mind that this is just the introduction to the character, and pretty much every version has either started with her as Joker's girlfriend, or as his ex before eventually splitting her off on her own. Margot Robbie already has plans to star in and produce an all women ensemble DC movie lead by her Harley. I have a feeling if those plans work out we'll probably start that movie with Harley breaking up with the Joker and joining up with the other cast members.
 
Christopher said:
And it reflects the equally disturbing trend of works like Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey to present emotionally or physically abusive relationships as something romantic that women should crave. As a cultural trend, it's sick and dangerous. Whether these stories are true to their own interpretations doesn't matter, because it's the choice to go for those interpretations in the first place that's unhealthy.
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I disagree. The whole basis of the superhero genre is that violence in fiction is entertaining. These heroes don't just talk the criminals into giving up, they beat them up. It's all fictional and it's all for fun. That can apply to a deranged relationship between Harley and the Joker as well. Romance stories are going to have their own kind of fantasies after all.
 
Christopher said:
Whaaaa??? That's totally twisted reasoning. If a character is sympathetic to the audience as a victim of abuse, then absolutely the last thing the audience should want is to see her go back to her abuser. If we're sympathetic to Harley, then what we want is for her not to suffer anymore -- to outgrow her self-destructive dependency on the Joker and to stand up for herself.
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Sorry to go back to an old post, but I came up with a response to this.
When I talk about sympathizing with Harley I don't mean we sympathize with her as a victim going back to her abuser, we sympathize with her as a woman who's been seperated from the man she loves, and wants to get back to him.
 
grendelsbayne said:
It's also worth mentioning that Harley's 'happy ending's was not just about reuniting with the Joker, it was also being freed from prison.
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You noticed this of course you did.

Earlier in the movie she says something like "none of us are normal!" and then in the dream/wish sequence, the button setting she is pushing on the dishwasher is "normal" because their dishwasher controls reality.

That's all Harley really wants, a magic dishwasher.
 
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Harley fell in love or was fascinated with the Joker when she was still his therapist. It didn't appear to be any Stockholm syndrome, but she was complicit with the shock therapy and acid bath. They are a nutso couple, but it works for them in a comic book world. Frankly, I'm more disgusted by comic books giving the women huge (and I mean HUGE) bazooms.
 
This is what reading about huge bazooms eventually does.

You become desensitized to bazooms.

Bazooms no longer matter inside or out side of comic books.

Besides, maybe you're only reading the worst, most sexist examples of the genre, but then considering how these particual comics represent men, its as sexist, because the men all look like they're over doing on steroids with pecs twice the size as their heads, therefore equally sexist, therefore equal and not sexist. (Kidding. Math is funny. Two wrongs don't make a right.)

But that's just the worst.

A month ago, the Wonder Woman writer railroaded the Wonder Woman "cover" artist into quitting, because there was an argument about how much skin Diana should be showing on the covers. Comics, the industry over the last 15 years, longer, has accepted that a large number of people buying their product are women, and it's not as toxic as you may recall, depending on when your experience with comics is from.

My girlfriend is newish to comics, every Wednesday I forward to her (on facebook) all the covers of the new books that seem female friendly or have a female on the cover or are staring a female, and some times she jumps up and down claiming that such and such looks good or amazing ( and then she starts ordering books from Amazon), and other times she says (her words, not mine) "Too slutty" so the industry is still not up to spec.

Did you ever see Weird Science?

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Two nerds trying to build a woman with their 80s home computer.

During the design period, one of these nerds says...

"More than a handful is asking for trouble"

Wow.

I just looked up the exact quote.

My memory whitewashed history a little.

"Hold it, Wyatt. I know female stats. Anything bigger than a handful, you're risking a sprained tongue."

Some may claim that men are still thugs, but we have come so far.
 
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If it's a woman who owns the company, a woman editing the comic, a woman writing the comic, a woman drawing the comic, sure, fictional women can be fictionally slutty, but really, it takes more than what you wear to make that determination, surely?

To be fair, that kneejerk reaction she had, happened once when I showed her a Vampirella cover as a joke, because her narrow criteria within which she insists is her wheelhouse is restrictive.

She, really likes the current Starfire comic, but did not like how Corrie was drawn in the the Geoff Johns series from the early 2000s, even though geoff's book back then was a tame series intended for teenagers.

2003ish

geoff.jpg


2015ish

Starfire_Vol_2_1_Textless.jpg


As a desensitized nerd, who has been into this for so long that I don't see a half naked alien princess in either of these pictures, I'm actually wondering if they are the same species because of the reimagining of her eyes. You can see that they used to be completely green, and now there's like pupils and irises and stuff. Still uniformly green sure, but there's texture, if that's the right word.

Yes.

I'm looking at her eyes.
 
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I was looking at her magic finger.
Is she the same species as E.T.?
Now we know why he got banished to Earth.
 
Three words: enchantress was hott. She looked hotter all dirty. She sure can dance haha. Dont know why she was moving while she was making her machine at the end of the movie.
 
The movie changed a lot during production so I have a feeling what they told Leto probably was true when they hired him, but then changed as production went on.
 
SS netted another $6.2 million yesterday and $5 million on Monday. I think we can safely conclude it's legs are fine. It's made more domestically than every X-Men film and several MCU films.

I've seen it twice and after both viewings a lot of people exiting the theater said they never seen anything like it before and I think that's why people enjoyed it.
 
One Lucky Red Shirt said:
Three words: enchantress was hott. She looked hotter all dirty. She sure can dance haha. Dont know why she was moving while she was making her machine at the end of the movie.
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My son was reminded of the Elaine Benis awkward dance but I thought she looked like her underwear was creeping into delicate areas.
 
Everyone's comments about the Enchantress dancing have been cracking me up. I noticed it but on first viewing at least I didn't register it as awkward as everyone else. Seemed kind of a Wiccan/Druid kind of thing to do.
 
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