Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

[Guy Gardener]

Seven and Janeway had a developed and intimate MATERNAL relationship, that could switch or adapt at a moments notice, which is the gross bit. Incest is gross. Chakotay and Janeway are both old enough to be Seven's parent, but only Janeway thought of Seven as a daughter, but, and this is the clincher, Janeway may have seen Seven as her daughter, but right up till the very end, Seven of Nine thought that Kathryn Janeway was an asshole, which is why a love affair between these two is completely irrational.

Seven's a young woman, of course and that does seem to play a part in her involvement with Chakotay. I've known young women who've gone out with men 40 years young and it didn't seem to phase them. Maybe they were just looking for a Sugar Daddy, or eXperience, or who knows? I've always been kind of afraid to delve too deeply, about that. These relationships tended to be short-lived and maybe that's how it should be. It was certainly the case with Chakotay and Seven.

Google swears that Annika was 24 in Scorpion.

(I thought she was older, 27, and that 27 is not young. Her age is probably determined on how old the actress playing young Anika looked/was in Dark Frontier. Jeri was 29 in Scorpion. Jeri is 5 years older than Seven. Rob is 15 years older than Jeri, and 20 years older than Seven. We don't know how old Chakotay is. I've googled crap this before. ####.)

Is 24 + 3 really that young?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Anything under 30 is young, one could argue. It's my understanding that normal "aging," on a cellular level, can start to begin for people at around age 27. But regardless, Chakotay was definitely an Old Fart by the time Janeway first feasted her eyes upon him. And this would not have been lost on Seven ... that's for certain. Even a Borg understands the difference between a young studd ... and a former stallion, put out to pasture.

Did Janeway appreciate the sight of her unintended kissing up on a woman so much younger than she? Might she have been bitter about that? It's just a good thing that it happened so near the end of Voyager's run, because Hell hath no Fury and all that. And there's no hiding it from her, on a ship that small. There's no being 'discrete.' Bolt the door and draw the curtains ... it's all in vain.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"I don't want him, but no one is allowed him either" is so high school.

Infantalization.

Society and parents decide when children become adults.

Didn't Julian Bashir's daddy seem like a child right up until the moment he asked to go to jail?

Anika entered the collective as a child and exited the Borg with the most adult (logically pragmatic) mind the Borg could bestow on anyone with a brain smaller than a bread box. She can learn about stuff, but really it's possible that Seven can't be more adult than she was in Scorpion.

 

[locutus101]

Seven and Janeway had a developed and intimate MATERNAL relationship, that could switch or adapt at a moments notice, which is the gross bit. Incest is gross. Chakotay and Janeway are both old enough to be Seven's parent, but only Janeway thought of Seven as a daughter, but, and this is the clincher, Janeway may have seen Seven as her daughter, but right up till the very end, Seven of Nine thought that Kathryn Janeway was an asshole, which is why a love affair between these two is completely irrational.



Google swears that Annika was 24 in Scorpion.

(I thought she was older, 27, and that 27 is not young. Her age is probably determined on how old the actress playing young Anika looked/was in Dark Frontier. Jeri was 29 in Scorpion. Jeri is 5 years older than Seven. Rob is 15 years older than Jeri, and 20 years older than Seven. We don't know how old Chakotay is. I've googled crap this before. ####.)

Is 24 + 3 really that young?

To call it incest you need a blood relation. People have been known to marry their step parents, and though it's very unusual,there is nothing illegal or gross about it.

There is a famous novel by Georges Sand "Francois Le champi" , about a man who marries his step mother, look into it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So it's fine to make out with any of my adopted children?

Figuratively incestuous.

Did I really have to say "figuratively"?

 

[locutus101]

So it's fine to make out with any of my adopted children?

Figuratively incestuous.

Did I really have to say "figuratively"?

As long as they're consenting adults, it is.

It's not incestuous at all, figuratively or otherwise.

 

[2takesfrakes]

 

[Catarina]

In case you didn't get me, I am not saying I'm for it. I'm saying i don't get the argument of people.

 

[locutus101]

In case you didn't get me, I am not saying I'm for it. I'm saying i don't get the argument of people.

I have no feeling about it, one way or the other, I am just saying that there is nothing wrong about it.

 

[Catarina]

I don't see J/7 nor C/7 but it's not incest. It's a generational gap that makes me uncomfortable, honestly.

I don't see maternal, I see guardian. Everyone sees it a little differently which is interesting. And if you really force perspective to a dark side, you could say a groomer. Why? I saw a compelling video that artistically depicted Janeway as a mirror of the Borg Queen. Doing what they saw fit to bring seven to their side having their own justifications. Was Janeway right? This Seven seems to be okay with it now. She sees Janeway's vision now. If she wants to be Borg at least know humanity first. she didn't sell it very well but I think Janeway did good by Seven. anyway I've quickly derailed the thread. sorry.

 

[locutus101]

I don't see J/7 nor C/7 but it's not incest. It's a generational gap that makes me uncomfortable, honestly.

I don't see maternal, I see guardian. Everyone sees it a little differently which is interesting. And if you really force perspective to a dark side, you could say a groomer. Why? I saw a compelling video that artistically depicted Janeway as a mirror of the Borg Queen. Doing what they saw fit to bring seven to their side having their own justifications. Was Janeway right? This Seven seems to be okay with it now. She sees Janeway's vision now. If she wants to be Borg at least know humanity first. she didn't sell it very well but I think Janeway did good by Seven. anyway I've quickly derailed the thread. sorry.

How would Sisko put it?

"If you want to be borg, then be borg!"

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't see J/7 nor C/7 but it's not incest. It's a generational gap that makes me uncomfortable, honestly.

I don't see maternal, I see guardian. Everyone sees it a little differently which is interesting. And if you really force perspective to a dark side, you could say a groomer. Why? I saw a compelling video that artistically depicted Janeway as a mirror of the Borg Queen. Doing what they saw fit to bring seven to their side having their own justifications. Was Janeway right? This Seven seems to be okay with it now. She sees Janeway's vision now. If she wants to be Borg at least know humanity first. she didn't sell it very well but I think Janeway did good by Seven. anyway I've quickly derailed the thread. sorry.

If you think Janeway was being motherly, mostly in the beginning, then that word applies figuratively. If you don't think Janeway was being motherly towards Seven, then that word doesn't apply.

Characterization on this show is deeply inconsistent.

The Doctor was also her mother, and actually put the hard hours in, which is why he was so let down in the end when she said "No Sex for you" in Endgame.

Lynnis married Uncky Harry.

Not a lot of options on this ship to find true love.

 

[locutus101]

If you think Janeway was being motherly, mostly in the beginning, then that word applies figuratively. If you don't think Janeway was being motherly towards Seven, then that word doesn't apply.

Characterization on this show is deeply inconsistent.

The Doctor was also her mother, and actually put the hard hours in, which is why he was so let down in the end when she said "No Sex for you" in Endgame.

Lynnis married Uncky Harry.

Not a lot of options on this ship to find true love.

Why would you call Harry her uncle? Because she grew up on the ship where he was? That seems strained to say the least. What I find strange is the idea of marrying someone whom you know is going to be outlived by your dog.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's a cultural thing.

Close family friends are uncles and aunts with out being blood relatives.

My rule is, if I've changed someone's diapers, then they should call me uncle Guy.

 

[locutus101]

It's a cultural thing.

Close family friends are uncles and aunts with out being blood relatives.

My rule is, if I've changed someone's diapers, then they should call me uncle Guy.

It's your rule. It doesn't have to be everyone else's.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's not just me, to a billion people in India, it's the law.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Seven's a young woman, of course and that does seem to play a part in her involvement with Chakotay. I've known young women who've gone out with men 40 years young and it didn't seem to phase them. Maybe they were just looking for a Sugar Daddy, or eXperience, or who knows? I've always been kind of afraid to delve too deeply, about that. These relationships tended to be short-lived and maybe that's how it should be. It was certainly the case with Chakotay and Seven.

Exactly.
That's why, I ended to think that producers/writers of Star Trek are really bad for writing love stories. Indeed, except Paris/Torres and Riker/Troi, all others seem to have failed, whatever the series: TNG (Picard/Crusher), DS9 (Odo/Kira, Jadzia/Wolf), Voyager (Kes/Neelix, Chakotay/Seven's relationship, which has all the chances to be short-lived), Entreprise (Tucker/T'Pol and Archer is still single after 4 seasons).

Whatever the love stories proposed in ST: Discovery, I hope that it will be better written and that they will have a chance to survive beyond the end of the series like in the end of fairy tales : "and they lived happy 'till the end of their lives and had many children"!

 

[locutus101]

It's not just me, to a billion people in India, it's the law.

I don't live in India, do you?

In some countries (that need not be named) people are put in jail for a long time for being in possession of a bottle of alcohol, women are stoned for adultery and severely punished for showing their faces in public, etc...

There is nothing wrong when two consenting adults who are not blood related have sex or marry and IMO that's nobody else's business what they do.

 

[stardream]

Look Tom Paris, who before dating Torres, was a true seducer! .

I think Tom's reputation was overrated. He struck out with every woman on the ship (Stadi, Susan Nicoletti, Kes) The only woman we know he got together with before Torres was a conspirator who was using him. He and one of the Delaney sisters MIGHT have had a brief fling but the only thing we know about that was a double date with Harry that happened off screen.
He might have had a thing with Raine Robinson if it wasn't for the whole 'I'm from the future thing.'
I never got that the Howdy Doodie comment was about Tom's looks. I thought it was more of a sense that his knowledge of what was going on was behind the times. Howdie Doodie was popular in the 50s....

This has nothing to do with the topic...I just think Paris' reputation was just a lot of...talk.

 

[locutus101]

I think Tom's reputation was overrated. He struck out with every woman on the ship (Stadi, Susan Nicoletti, Kes) The only woman we know he got together with before Torres was a conspirator who was using him. He and one of the Delaney sisters MIGHT have had a brief fling but the only thing we know about that was a double date with Harry that happened off screen.
He might have had a thing with Raine Robinson if it wasn't for the whole 'I'm from the future thing.'
I never got that the Howdy Doodie comment was about Tom's looks. I thought it was more of a sense that his knowledge of what was going on was behind the times. Howdie Doodie was popular in the 50s....

This has nothing to do with the topic...I just think Paris' reputation was just a lot of...talk.

You forget that in an alternate future he married Kes, had children and grand children, and Kim as son in law!!!