Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

[2takesfrakes]

... Come on! For four years there was total indifference even hostility between them. Janeway has to defend seven against chac's intimations that she was always borg (regardless of the fact that she had already saved the ship a couple of times back then) and at the LAST MINUTE (so to speak) he's madly in love with her!!! Oh come on!

Seven of Nine's not that different, really, in this respect, than other women I've been with. One ex-girlfriend of mine, in particular, loved me to hate her ― because the more that I hated her ... the more I loved her.

I am glad we are seeing eye to eye!

Doesn't it feel great? It's such a satisfying experience, isn't it? You know, I've been trying to tell users posting on this site that for a long time, now: that agreeing with me is a good thing. It's the way to go, in fact. I'm confident that they'll keep picking up on it ... but we're getting there. We're getting there ...

 

[locutus101]

Seven of Nine's not that different, really, in this respect, than other women I've been with. One ex-girlfriend of mine, in particular, loved me to hate her ― because the more that I hated her ... the more I loved her.
..

Actually, seven is NOT that type of woman. Remember when she asked Harry to drop trou so that they could have sex there and then? She was actually put off by Harry's refusal and never asked him again and you could sense the contempt whenever she was talking to him after that. Plus her courtship of chac in endgame was very much a by the book thing, if you remember.
So no, I don't see her or chac having that kind of love-hate, mildly sadomasochistic relationship.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Seven's people's skills might've needed a tuck, here and there, being Borg and all that ... but she was still a woman - OK? - a Human woman, so ... she still has standards. That whole thing with Harry Kim ... that was just for shits and giggles.. She was probably just curious what reaction she would get from him, nothing more. I wouldn't put too much stock into it, beyond that. Girls will be Girls and all that ...

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Do you know what is funny there? If Bernan/Braga/Biller who wrote the script of Endgame with Mulgrew's contribution, have done their work properly, we wouldn't wonder anymore - 15 years later after the airing of this last 2 parts episode - if Chakotay/Seven's romance was a natural epilog for both of them or a very last minute idea decided in the writting room!

All people involved in the story still keep silent about this part as if it was just a detail for them ... and maybe it is really what that is. Something not enough mattering to deserve a clarification on behalf of the authors.
Those who want to believe in Chakotay/Seven, will continue on this way and idem for those who have found the coupling ridiculous, and that whatever the authors can say.
As we say in France, "chacun voit midi à sa porte" (everyone sees noon at his door... even when it's 2:00 pm!) and that is fine!

 

[Guy Gardener]

I adhere to C/S because it's ridiculous watching J/7 and J/C trying the bend the universe into a pretzel to destroy or reverse C/7. I'm not saying that it's good idea, just that it's canon and what happened.

The process of dating is about deciding if you have feelings worth investing in a deeper relationship. The point of dating is to create situations that can invent feelings upon which a relationship can be based. Seven asked for her first date because developmentally she was behind everyone else and needed to experience courtship and intimacy to be human like the rest of the crew was human, even the aliens.

They probably didn't have feelings before or immediately after their first date, but it just depends who who asked whom to date in the first movement, but it was probably Seven considering all the interpersonal lessons she was dogging through. She was undertaking a science experiment and got caught going through the motions with genuine feelings (that might trip her cortical node and kill her).

If Chuckles did the asking about date one, then that's a horse of a different colour entirely.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The most realistic couple in STAR TREK was Keiko and O'Brien ... the nagging housewife ... the henpecked husband. B'Elanna even had one of VOYAGER'S plethora of easily-replaceable shuttles come betwixt she and her husband! I'm not making this up, it's in the final thing. I guess it's like one of those things, where you hear about it, in Real Life, where some whacked-out woman wants to be legally married to a Roller Coaster ride, in an Amusement Park.

The way romance works on stage and screen, however, goes something like this: Boy meets girl. Boy loses girl. Boy gets girl back. That's the formulae that's been so Tried and True since even before the days of Billy Shakes writing out King Lear in longhand with a Quill, a bottle of Indigo Ink and parchment made of wood pulp. And any gents out there who've been subjected to a Chick Flick will know - and know it true - that they prove women to be wholly and completely unknowable - they're alien to us in their thoughts ... and deeds. Seven and Chakotay's Instant Romance makes perfect sense, by comparison. A woman has her needs ...

 

[Guy Gardener]

This movie and Love Boat is what made me the jerk that I am today.

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[stardream]

Why is it always 'boy meets girl' and so on. Why isn't it 'girl meets boy, girl gets boy, girl loses boy ?

The Flyer wasn't what came between Tom and B'Elanna. She assumed that their relationship was low on his list of priorities because he didn't realize how important the weekend was to her because she didn't tell him and he wasn't a mind reader. That's an old story and pretty realistic.

 

[LJones41]

Chakotay NEVER HAD the opportunity to choose between Janeway and Seven, considering that Janeway never gave him the opportunity to choose. Come to think of it, neither did Seven. She and Chakotay merely drifted into a relationship.

 

[Sophie74656]

I haven't read the whole discussion so sorry if this is repeated....
I didn't like their pairing too much, it did come out of nowhere. Especially when in one of the episosed that came right before they were stuck together on a planet and there was nothing between them. But as far as hooking up with Janewy, she had made it clear several times that she would NOT get involved with anyone on command. She said this again at the end of Workforce too. So Chakotay did the healthy thing and moved on.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Why is it always 'boy meets girl' and so on. Why isn't it 'girl meets boy, girl gets boy, girl loses boy ? Have always wondered about that.

Females are always like, "women need a Man, like a fish needs a bicycle," and stuff like that ...so ... is it any wonder that everything, therefore, falls on the Men? Good thing, too, or there'd be none of us around, today!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why is it always 'boy meets girl' and so on. Why isn't it 'girl meets boy, girl gets boy, girl loses boy ?

Boy dies in a tragic Blimp accident...

 

[locutus101]

Boy dies in a tragic Blimp accident...

It's a well known fact that blimps are hazardous.

 

[Rincewiend]

Boy dies in a tragic Blimp accident...

Goodyear?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ No, the worst...

 

[Katinka]

The whole 7 thing was just for poor Chakotay to put a bit of balm on his bruised ego. Can't blame him, really, been there, done the much younger guy just to get back at somebody. Not nice in hindsight but at the time I believed that I could make it work with the young guy, if I just wanted it enough. Not a viable course of action as I found out soon enough.
Now, this is sci fi, not romance but if we just look at it from a romance perspective: it has to be J/C in the end. I have it on good authority from a friend who writes (and publishes) romance novels: the two main character have to end up together happily ever after for it to be considered romance. yeah, I know it's sci fi, but still, its sci fi with a dash of romance - so they have to end up together. Makes sense, right?

 

[Guy Gardener]

My girlfriend is a little younger, I sung a song from a Marx Bros movie the other day but she had no idea what I was talking about, and then when I tried to explain... "That movie was made in 1930? WTF? How old are you, really?"

The age difference was not going to be a problem with C/7.

There is no popular human culture in the future that we have been yet made aware of.

Everything in entertainment is the same, and technology is "practically" the same as it has been for the last century.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Katinka said: ↑
The whole 7 thing was just for poor Chakotay to put a bit of balm on his bruised ego.

Chakotay seems to be only attracted by women having a strong personality (Seska, Janeway, Seven). Maybe, if he had agreed to "lower" his standard, he would have more success with the female population aboard Voyager. Look Tom Paris, who before dating Torres, was a true seducer! .
Anyway, I keep thinking that ex-Lieutenant Marla Gilmore would have been an excellent choice (honest, sensitive and hardworking -> yes, she made an error of assessment and paid cash for it at the end of Equinox).


Katinka said: ↑
Now, this is sci fi, not romance but if we just look at it from a romance perspective: it has to be J/C in the end. I have it on good authority from a friend who writes (and publishes) romance novels: the two main character have to end up together happily ever after for it to be considered romance. yeah, I know it's sci fi, but still, its sci fi with a dash of romance - so they have to end up together. Makes sense, right?

So, if I follow your theory , Sisko and Kira in DS9, Archer and T'Pol in Entreprise would have ended together, right?! However, like Janeway and Chakotay, they didn't! Instead, we had Kira/Odo (lovely!) and T'Pol/Tucker and in both cases, it seems to me more natural to see than Chakotay/Seven..., ven if K/O & T'P/T didn't end up together happily!

 

[2takesfrakes]

Riley Fraiser, the Borg Lady Homesteader, didn't have a strong personality. Oh! But she was a leader! A leader of a whole community out on the very edge of The Frontier ... struggling to survive. And yet ... she was personality deficient. She was so sweet, which I absolutely loved about her, but she was otherwise kind of just "there." When it came to women, Chakotay didn't go after what he wanted, so much as took what came his way. Like, how alligators sort of just hang around and wait for something edible to wander by. Tom Paris was a little more aggressive about going after what he wanted, but he was also young, of course.

Even Rain Robinson, who kept pouring the pressure on Tom for his telephone number and a much deeper commitment, described him as having the sex-appeal of Howdy Doody. Turns out Howdy was a sorry looking puppet, actually, on a horrid kid's show. Maybe Tom was so ugly to women that it made him cute, to them? But until B'Elanna finally admitted how Truly, Madly & Deeply she was in love with him, Tom had his pick of the finest-looking ladies in the Delta Quadrant. When Chakotay got with Kellin, as gorgeous as she was, when I first saw that episode with her, I was all like, "Chakotay ... if you lose THIS one ...!!!" Which, of course, he did. But, oh WELL! As for getting with younger women, it's not like STAR TREK specifically spells out everyone's exact ages, so it's hard to know if a woman played by a beautiful actress is meant to be young ... or just "well-preserved," actually.

Seven's a young woman, of course and that does seem to play a part in her involvement with Chakotay. I've known young women who've gone out with men 40 years young and it didn't seem to phase them. Maybe they were just looking for a Sugar Daddy, or eXperience, or who knows? I've always been kind of afraid to delve too deeply, about that. These relationships tended to be short-lived and maybe that's how it should be. It was certainly the case with Chakotay and Seven.

 

[Catarina]

I don't even acknowledge their age difference. I mean if people want to ship J/7 why is it grotesque (okay that might be an extreme word there) with Chakotay? Mulgrew and Beltran are a year apart. And it's unpopular because it's not the cultural norm these days but it once was. And some people just have their knickers in a bunch because it wasn't Janeway (until novels). I'm such a person...kind of. I guess I outgrew the want to have it happen.