Who did the MACOs fight?

[F. King Daniel]

If Earth was coddled by the Vulcans and humans were limited to a few cargo ships in local space until Enterprise launched 2151, who were the MACOs fighting before that? Was it ever established? Was it Naussican pirates as seen in "Fortunate Son"? Kzinti from the don't-really-fit-into-modern-canon four Man/Kzin wars of "The Slaver Weapon"?

I'm having these visions of Australia being brought into the United Earth government in 2150 by force and an early 22nd century Earth that wasn't nearly as pleasant as ENT depicted.

 

[SPCTRE]

I'm having these visions of Australia being brought into the United Earth government in 2150 by force and an early 22nd century Earth that wasn't nearly as pleasant as ENT depicted.

I always had a similar image of Earth in my mind, I mean I'm sure it was quite pleasant in the Bay Area, but probably not yet 100% utopian on a global scale (like it would become by TNG).

Edit: I love the idea of Australia being dragged kicking and screaming into United Earth, and history books later on glossing over that dirty little fact

 

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Maybe the Kzin?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The former Natives of Deneva.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Was it Naussican pirates as seen in "Fortunate Son"? Kzinti from the don't-really-fit-into-modern-canon four Man/Kzin wars of "The Slaver Weapon"?

Could be, could be.

Or the MACOS could have been engaged in rescue operations, WW III recovery efforts, medical relief missions, that type of thing. They may not have been "fighting" anybody, in the strictest sense.

"Uh oh! Better get MACO!" (honk honk)

 

[Serin117]

I'm having these visions of Australia being brought into the United Earth government in 2150 by force and an early 22nd century Earth that wasn't nearly as pleasant as ENT depicted.

United Earth would have to be pretty evil for us not want in - we're joiners! Hell I thin there is even a space treaty that we signed whilst the US did not.
And now I have silly ideas for fan fiction... dammit.

 

[eyeresist]

Who did the MACOs fight? Everybody!

My guess: terrorists, secessionists (Earth nations and colonies), pirates and aliens encroaching on Earth territory.

The Australia question is a well-known strawman. The issue of reluctance to join the united Earth government was a purely hypothetical proposition - as I think a few naughty forumites are actually aware!

 

[Timo]

It's the Assault Command of the Military. Doesn't sound particularly defensive or apologetic - these guys and gals aren't just fighting, they are attacking/invading/conquering somebody for a living.

Perhaps the organization was founded back in the good old days when Earthlings still thought they could conquer neighboring civilizations, until the Vulcans said this would get them even more grounded. Or then it was founded in anticipation of the day when the Vulcans would be off to a party?

I gather the Military could have a hard-working Defense Command with plenty of combat experience, and then these simulator-trained Assault folks whose job is too theoretical to attract any officers besides Hayes.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SPCTRE]

a few naughty forumites

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

The ones who tagged along with Archer, who were supposedly the best General Casey had as per "The Expanse," hadn't actually fought anyone prior to that. As per "Harbinger," their expertise was limited to simulated combat, all conducted on Earth. After that, they fought many including Xindi, Osaarians, zombie Vulcans, the descendants of 19th-century humans abducted by Skagarans, Triannon, Illyrians, Sphere-Builders, Augments, Klingons, and Romulans.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Thank you! I thought I remembered them mentioning in passing previous actual combat, but I guess I'm misremembering.

 

[Timo]

I guess it cannot be emphasized enough that MACO must be a tiny subset of the organization known as the Military. That the Assault subdivision doesn't have combat experience doesn't mean the entire Military would lack it.

OTOH, it's unclear whether Reed is even speaking of the Operations wing of Assault Command in its entirety, or just the sorry lot of individuals burdened on him and his well-performing team; there might have been combat veterans who just happen to be too old for frontline action by the time of the Xindi attack. Say, Hayes might have declawed a Kzin or two back in his day.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SPCTRE]

combat experience or no, Private S. Money was the least red-shirt-y red shirt in probably Trek history

no other nameless red shirt got shot/stunned/wounded as many times without dying, likely a record for the ages

 

[Timo]

There are so many instances of the same actor wearing two or three different name tags that we're probably supposed to think that the Military

a) relies extensively on cloning,
b) encourages (serial) marriages during missions, and/or
c) believes in disinformation even in tiniest details.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Thank you! I thought I remembered them mentioning in passing previous actual combat, but I guess I'm misremembering.

It's possible you're remembering some references to non-combat experience: as per "Anomaly," McKenzie did a six-week tour on Jupiter Station during which the grav-plating failed several times, requiring her to use gravity boots. A few months before "Harbinger," quite possibly during that same tour, Hayes helped develop a holographic target practice system there as well, which he brought with him aboard NX-01. At some point he'd also undergone lunar survival training, but it's unclear whether that actually took place on Luna. Hawkins racked up over a thousand hours in an EV suit during six months on the Janus Loop as per "The Council."

Intriguingly, that last one was specifically said to include "EV combat training"; does this mean the Janus Loop is in fact on Earth even though the name makes it sound to be in the vicinity of Saturn? Does it mean Reed's statement in "Harbinger" about all their combat simulations being "conducted on Earth" can be loosely interpreted to mean within the Solar system? Or the most intriguing possibility of all: immediately before this, Reed mentions that he's "been reviewing service transcripts," so could this mean he'd completely overlooked certain details such as this one in making his earlier hasty assessment? Might this give us room to question not only the "on Earth" part of it, but even the assertion that they had no expertise outside of simulations altogether?

 

[The Wormhole]

I remember when the novels did their first MACO centred novel, Last Full Measure from 2006, they ignored the line from Harbinger about no prior combat experience and had them talking about all their previous missions and even fights with other aliens.

I believe the general implication in the novel is that MACOs are typically used to defend Earth colonies, and that the Xindi mission was the first time they were used in an offensive capacity.

 

[Timo]

The one thing curiously and totally missing on screen is references to specific adversaries. If these forces basically never fought anybody, wouldn't they be famous for the one time they did manage to find an opponent? Remarks like "The Bugsians weren't this bad" or "I've dealt with the Wormites, trust me on this" would be less likely to occur if the MACO in fact had scores of opponents and the fights didn't make the news any longer...

I believe the general implication in the novel is that MACOs are typically used to defend Earth colonies, and that the Xindi mission was the first time they were used in an offensive capacity.

I hate the idea being put forth there that the MACO = the Military. It's just their Rangers equivalent, not the entire organization! And I could well see Rangers never being operationally deployed to mundane tasks such as guarding an embassy on Vulcan or routing humanitarian aid to Damsel VII. The Military or the UE would have separate suborganizations for that, while the Rangers would train, train and train.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

I remember when the novels did their first MACO centred novel, Last Full Measure from 2006, they ignored the line from Harbinger about no prior combat experience and had them talking about all their previous missions and even fights with other aliens.

I believe the general implication in the novel is that MACOs are typically used to defend Earth colonies, and that the Xindi mission was the first time they were used in an offensive capacity.

That's probably where I got the impression from. Definitely read that one, years ago.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I hate the idea being put forth there that the MACO = the Military. It's just their Rangers equivalent, not the entire organization! And I could well see Rangers never being operationally deployed to mundane tasks such as guarding an embassy on Vulcan or routing humanitarian aid to Damsel VII. The Military or the UE would have separate suborganizations for that, while the Rangers would train, train and train.

Yes, and specifically with regard to the embassy on Vulcan, we actually get some suggestion of this there, although it's unfortunately undercut a bit by the costume department not having made it more visually obvious: the embassy security personnel so often identified as Starfleet due to their (*cough*) similar uniforms are actually identified by their shoulder patches as members of the United Earth Diplomatic Corps, and one was verbally identified as a corporal, a rank Starfleet has not been known to use (as the MACOs clearly do).

Oh, and of course there's also the Royal Navy, which still exists in some seagoing capacity on Earth.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I'm having these visions of Australia being brought into the United Earth government in 2150 by force and an early 22nd century Earth that wasn't nearly as pleasant as ENT depicted.

I would point out that the subject of Australia not joining the EU was brought up as a hypothetical in TNG to question idea of giving Federation membership to a government that doesn't control the entire planet.