CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[oswriter]

That was why I was asking what our legally trained and jounnalistic posters thought. It looks worrying when you see the Reason interview, which WE see as biased in Axanars favour, but looks reasonable to the general public who don't know all the ins and outs, and who may end up serving on said jury, if the case gets that far. I was surprised that you said that in reply, @oswriter.

A few points.
First, at least in the US, potential jurors are questioned to screen out anyone who has prior knowledge of the case. So presumably none of the jurors will have seen the coverage in Reason or anywhere else online.
Second, it's not a given this case will get to a jury. C/P will likely move for summary judgment. Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, summary judgment is granted when "the movant shows that there is no genuine dispute as to any material fact and the movant is entitled to judgment as a matter of law." In this context, "no genuine dispute" means there is no way that a "reasonable" juror could find in favor of the non-moving party, even drawing every inference in its favor. I'd say there's a very strong probability--something in the neighborhood of 90%--that the judge will grant C/P summary judgment on at least some of its copyright infringement claims, if not all of them. At that point, Axanar's only move would be to appeal the grant of summary judgment to the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals--and if they lose there the case is basically over aside from a determination of damages.

 

[jespah]

The biggest thing about AP's tweets, etc. is they show a pattern of contradictions. They're hearsay, yes, but they can be used to show an ever-changing yet constantly self-serving narrative.

Plus gathering tweets and FB posts is free. Search briefly, right-click, and then you might as well have a coffee break. L & L have it easy. On W & S's side of things, they have to actually hunt. By not yapping on social media, C/P take away the easy and free means of finding contradictions. If you're defense, you have to take depositions, subpoena documents, etc.

 

[oswriter]

Plus gathering tweets and FB posts is free. Search briefly, right-click, and then you might as well have a coffee break. L & L have it easy. On W & S's side of things, they have to actually hunt. By not yapping on social media, C/P take away the easy and free means of finding contradictions. If you're defense, you have to take depositions, subpoena documents, etc.

The one thing that cannot be emphasized enough is that nothing LFIM or anyone from Axanar has said up to this point has been under oath, i.e. under penalty of perjury.

 

[trynda1701]

First, at least in the US, potential jurors are questioned to screen out anyone who has prior knowledge of the case. So presumably none of the jurors will have seen the coverage in Reason or anywhere else online.

I see. OK, thank you for that clarification, @oswriter. And for your thinking on how the lawsuit might end.

 

[BK613]

A few points.
First, at least in the US, potential jurors are questioned to screen out anyone who has prior knowledge of the case. So presumably none of the jurors will have seen the coverage in Reason or anywhere else online.
Second, it's not a given this case will get to a jury. C/P will likely move for summary judgment. Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, summary judgment is granted when "the movant shows that there is no genuine dispute as to any material fact and the movant is entitled to judgment as a matter of law." In this context, "no genuine dispute" means there is no way that a "reasonable" juror could find in favor of the non-moving party, even drawing every inference in its favor. I'd say there's a very strong probability--something in the neighborhood of 90%--that the judge will grant C/P summary judgment on at least some of its copyright infringement claims, if not all of them. At that point, Axanar's only move would be to appeal the grant of summary judgment to the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals--and if they lose there the case is basically over aside from a determination of damages.

If I understand things correctly, there will be no summary judgement. C/P asked for statutory damages and AP demanded a jury trial.

Relevant link

 

[oswriter]

If I understand things correctly, there will be no summary judgement. C/P asked for statutory damages and AP demanded a jury trial.

Yeah, that's not how this works. Either party can move for summary judgment under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Neither seeking statutory damages nor demanding a jury trial has anything to do with this. All "demanding" a jury trial means is that a party has chosen not to waive his or her constitutional right to a jury trial; it does not prevent either party from moving for summary judgment. Nor does it prevent a judge from awarding summary judgment if he determines there is no genuine factual dispute for a jury to resolve.
As for statutory damages, that only refers to damages that a registered copyright holder may seek in addition to actual damages resulting from the infringement. Again, this has nothing to do with summary judgment, which is governed by the Federal Rules. And in fact, federal courts have addressed statutory damage claims on summary judgment before.

 

[muCephi]

Yeah, that's not how this works. Either party can move for summary judgment under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Neither seeking statutory damages nor demanding a jury trial has anything to do with this. All "demanding" a jury trial means is that a party has chosen not to waive his or her constitutional right to a jury trial; it does not prevent either party from moving for summary judgment. Nor does it prevent a judge from awarding summary judgment if he determines there is no genuine factual dispute for a jury to resolve.
As for statutory damages, that only refers to damages that a registered copyright holder may seek in addition to actual damages resulting from the infringement. Again, this has nothing to do with summary judgment, which is governed by the Federal Rules. And in fact, federal courts have addressed statutory damage claims on summary judgment before.

Does the entire thing have to go to trial if only a subset of the summary judgment requests are in doubt?

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

My reasoning behind my opinion that AP is winning the PR war is that Im being asked by casual Trek fan friends, coworkers and family about CBS/P attacking some minor little fan film. It's being sold as David vs Goliath. Truth is often perceived by how the media spins things. CBS/P has done little to change the general opinion among those "not in the know" and I believe they're the ones who asked for a jury trial. And is it even possible that AP will not even take the stand? Many here are chortling at how this will be a slam dunk. I am unconvinced.

 

[oswriter]

Does the entire thing have to go to trial if only a subset of the summary judgment requests are in doubt?

Yes, a judge can grant partial summary judgment on certain issues and leave others for a jury to decide.

Truth is often perceived by how the media spins things. CBS/P has done little to change the general opinion among those "not in the know" and I believe they're the ones who asked for a jury trial. And is it even possible that AP will not even take the stand? Many here are chortling at how this will be a slam dunk. I am unconvinced.

If media spin was all it took to win a case, no studio would ever win a copyright lawsuit. Juries are not only screened to minimize the risk of contamination due to pretrial publicity, they are also carefully instructed in the law by the judge. And sure, while there's always a risk the jury will get carried away with emotion, I don't see that as a realistic possibility here. Any jury exposed to the full story and not just the "media spin" is likely to see it that way. But again, I doubt the judge will let it get that far.

 

[oswriter]

Incidentally, I encourage everyone to read a 1998 court decision involving another ST copyright infringement case. A guy wrote a Star Trek guidebook. Paramount sued and won on a preliminary injunction motion. The case was heard in New York and the author got some good press at the time--i.e., "David vs. Goliath" stories--but in the end it had no baring on the law or the outcome. And by all accounts, the author was nothing more than a devoted fan who was motivated to write the book to convince his wife that ST was great. He wasn't trying to build a business off of someone else's IP.

 

[asurob]

My reasoning behind my opinion that AP is winning the PR war is that Im being asked by casual Trek fan friends, coworkers and family about CBS/P attacking some minor little fan film. It's being sold as David vs Goliath. Truth is often perceived by how the media spins things. CBS/P has done little to change the general opinion among those "not in the know" and I believe they're the ones who asked for a jury trial. And is it even possible that AP will not even take the stand? Many here are chortling at how this will be a slam dunk. I am unconvinced.

This is a slam dunk.

Frankly, if AP is dumb enough not to settle...the trial will unhinge him and cost him quite a bit of money in damages. He has zero case here.

 

[Professor Zoom]

My reasoning behind my opinion that AP is winning the PR war is that Im being asked by casual Trek fan friends, coworkers and family about CBS/P attacking some minor little fan film. It's being sold as David vs Goliath. Truth is often perceived by how the media spins things. CBS/P has done little to change the general opinion among those "not in the know" and I believe they're the ones who asked for a jury trial. And is it even possible that AP will not even take the stand? Many here are chortling at how this will be a slam dunk. I am unconvinced.

Spin has very little to do with the actual points of law. And the law is what a jury is asked to consider, not just spin and opinion.

 

[Noname Given]

IIRC, the case will be decided by a jury (if it comes to that, which I believe it will), and I do believe that Alec Peters will probably win if it does. He is winning the PR battle.

Yeah, you don't know Juries in California (in the L.A. area). I do. If this goes to trial, Peters will see a massive statutory and punitive damage judgement against him. And even if by some weird situation C/P don't win the case; you can be sure they will appeal; and there is NO WAY the Federal Appeals Courts will effectively nullify U.S. copyright law.

 

[OtherGene]

IIRC, the case will be decided by a jury (if it comes to that, which I believe it will), and I do believe that Alec Peters will probably win if it does. He is winning the PR battle.

I'm not sure he's winning it completely as the amount of vocal detractors certainly suggest otherwise but he's definitely doing a better job than anybody in his position has any right to do.

EDIT - Just seen your following post in the thread and in that context I do see your point. I also think some folk are expecting some kind of 'Colonel Jessup' moment in court which I doubt is likely in reality.

 

[jespah]

Yeah, you don't know Juries in California (in the L.A. area). I do. If this goes to trial, Peters will see a massive statutory and punitive damage judgement against him. And even if by some weird situation C/P don't win the case; you can be sure they will appeal; and there is NO WAY the Federal Appeals Courts will effectively nullify U.S. copyright law.

Yep. Jurors are more likely (I suspect) to see someone trying for a shortcut to Easy Street.

The jury is far more likely to be made up by people like your cousin who heard of Spock and no one else, your boss who thinks it's just like Star Wars, and your neighbor who thinks all nerds are weird and feels people should work hard for their money, status, and privileges. Might be a few entitled jerks in the mix, but they will also be instructed to decide on the law, of course.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yep. Jurors are more likely (I suspect) to see someone trying for a shortcut to Easy Street.

The jury is far more likely to be made up by people like your cousin who heard of Spock and no one else, your boss who thinks it's just like Star Wars, and your neighbor who thinks all nerds are weird and feels people should work hard for their money, status, and privileges. Might be a few entitled jerks in the mix, but they will also be instructed to decide on the law, of course.

Exactly. And the cousin and the boss won't see a difference between Axanar and official CBS material. And that's why Peters is fucked.

 

[oswriter]

Exactly. And the cousin and the boss won't see a difference between Axanar and official CBS material. And that's why Peters is fucked.

The judge shouldn't see the difference. Which is why this case should never get to a jury. Prelude alone contains sufficient infringement to justify summary judgment on liability and damages. The judge wouldn't even need to address the hypothetical feature film.

 

[Jedi_Master]

All of the above conversation shows how idiotic Peters has been in his refusal to settle, and settle for whatever allows him to leave with the blue shirt on his back, but not his dignity.

 

[RedForman]

All of the above conversation shows how idiotic Peters has been in his refusal to settle, and settle for whatever allows him to leave with the blue shirt on his back, but not his dignity.

With his extraordinary cognitive dissonance, I'm not even sure if he knows what 'dignity' is.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Dignity... always dignity.