Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

[Katinka]

Since I never shipped any other TV couple (well, maybe Alicia Florrick and Will Gardner in The Good Wife a bit) I have to stand up here for my favorite couple that wasn't to be. A number of people said earlier, that it was Mulgrew being dead set against the pairing that made it impossible. But Mulgrew wasn't dead set against it, at least for several seasons. In an interview after Season 3 (the whole thing is here: www.littlereview.com/getcritical/trektalk/kate3.htm) she says that she isn't going to sleep with him but (big but) she also says:

Will that mean intimacy? "I think before we're finished it will, certainly," said Mulgrew, who believes the series will be on the air for three more years, running seven seasons as did The Next Generationand Deep Space Nine. But she doesn't expect love with Chakotay to blossom until the very end, if at all. "I want Chakotay as my confidant. That means that we're going to cross over all kinds of lines together, in the privacy of my quarters or his. Things will be said between us that nobody else on the crew will know about. We're going to have secrets, like good friends do - they don't talk about their relationship to their acquaintances. That's what we're going to have."

Seems to me she is advocating what a lot of fans would have liked to see: a close relationship between the two of them that doesn't cross the line into love/sex until the very end.
I, for one, would have been happy with this outcome, though, honestly, in her position I would have chucked those Starfleet Non-Fraterinzations Rules out the nearest airlock.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mayweather?



Alright. Thanks for your reply, Guy!

However, it would be interesting to ask to Brennan/Braga if 15 years later, in retrospect, they would have possibly regrets - or not at all - about Endgame, especially after they have read/listened uneven fans reactions: a virtual future which didn't correspond to expectations and an unexpected pairing/the absence of notable deaths in reality. And of course, to ask about the absence of a continuation in the form of TV movie, which could have offered to STV fans, a kind of closure for each character... .

Brannon got to play again with Seven in a comic book he wrote called Star Trek Hive.

Sought out by the publisher, co-author Brannon Braga, responsible for much of he Borg story-line in Star Trek: Voyager, has stated, "'d had this story in the back of my mind already because I'd always wanted to do the final chapter in the Borg saga, as I saw it, as it exists in the mythology that’s in my brain." [1]

http://www.startrek.com/article/braga-talks-hive-tng-cosmos-more-part-1

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_-_Hive

If I'm reading that right, Branan diud not think that Endgame was the End off the Borg story that he wanted to tell, and if he really had his way patrick Stewart would have been Endgame, not grey Mulgrew.

I'm %95 considering that you are joking about Mayweather.

 

[stardream]

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According to this, Mulgrew did Not want Janeway to have a relationship with Chakotay. It's around the three-minute mark.

 

[locutus101]

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According to this, Mulgrew did Not want Janeway to have a relationship with Chakotay. It's around the three-minute mark.

This looks clear-cut to me.

 

[Katinka]

That statement appears to have been made in 2011. I agree that at that point she was pretty adamant that she did not have and never wanted to have sex with Chakotay - but that's 10 years after the end of the show. People can convince themselves of a lot in 10 years. While the show was still ongoing she didn't rule it out, just wanted it done well and in good time.
I always wondered whether at the bottom of this was a Mulgrew-Beltran issue rather than a Janeway - Chakotay issue. She gushed very publicly about him early on, how sexy and hot he was etc. but later she pretty harshly criticized him and became more adamantly opposed to J/C. Oh well, I guess her new politician husband might not have appreciated his wife going on and on about how irresistible her co-worker is. Understandable. I guess we'll never know unless she writes another memoire and gives us the details.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Brannon got to play again with Seven in a comic book he wrote called Star Trek Hive.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_-_Hive
If I'm reading that right, Branan diud not think that Endgame was the End off the Borg story that he wanted to tell, and if he really had his way patrick Stewart would have been Endgame, not grey Mulgrew.

In the end, no matter who taken on Borgs. Both captains were also justifiable the one as the other one to beat the Queen Borg but if it had been Picard, the character of Seven of Nine would have certainly never existed and it would have been been a pity.
As I have already said, the only thing I knew because I have read/heard through interviews given by Braga was that, he wanted to kill Seven in Endgame (in Janeway's reality and not in the virtual future like it was mentionned) and that he has written Human Error in this perspective (cf bonus of Star Trek: Voyager - s7, for example). But mens from Paramount refused because they were too afraid that the fans perceive badly the disappearance of one of the favorite characters of the series and producers had to bow.

[QUOTE="Guy Gardener, post: 11690990, member: 201" I'm %95 considering that you are joking about Mayweather.

[/QUOTE]

Not at all. the only Star Trek series I ever watched from the beginning to the end, was Voyager (mainly because of its capitain and her performer aka Kate Mulgrew). It's in watching Voyager that I found out about Riker & Q then Troi & Barclay who came from The Next Generation.

 

[stardream]

That statement appears to have been made in 2011. I agree that at that point she was pretty adamant that she did not have and never wanted to have sex with Chakotay - but that's 10 years after the end of the show. People can convince themselves of a lot in 10 years. While the show was still ongoing she didn't rule it out, just wanted it done well and in good time.
I always wondered whether at the bottom of this was a Mulgrew-Beltran issue rather than a Janeway - Chakotay issue. She gushed very publicly about him early on, how sexy and hot he was etc. but later she pretty harshly criticized him and became more adamantly opposed to J/C. Oh well, I guess her new politician husband might not have appreciated his wife going on and on about how irresistible her co-worker is. Understandable. I guess we'll never know unless she writes another memoire and gives us the details.

I can believe she may have changed her tune as time went by...other ST actors have told stories that have changed over the years.

 

[locutus101]

I think what she says in the video makes sense. She didn't want her role as captain to be tainted by romance.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Why not to ask the question directly to producers? At less, we will know who was the real star of Star Trek (Mulgrew or Ryan or maybe both?) and if Chakotay/Seven was planned well before Human Error & Endgame?

Without a doubt, the producers would better appreciate being questioned by a charming French woman - especially a Parisian - and be more forthcoming with their information. I can't be arsed ...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mulgrew voices some old timey precautions against 20th century antifeminism... (cobbled altogether it sounds like) "It's impressive that a woman became Captain, but her most persons will assume she slept her way there, and if she is seen as a sexual person she is weak and will not be respected by her crew".

In the 20th century, that's a reasonable thing to say.

In the 21st century it's sad and disappointing that that still has to be said.

In the 24th century I suspect some sort of mental issue, because 24th century sexism in a world without money, looks like nothing that a human born in the 1950s would understand.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Without a doubt, the producers would better appreciate being questioned by a charming French woman - especially a Parisian - and be more forthcoming with their information. I can't be arsed ...

Well, if I find the courage to write to Brennan and Braga in 140 and they have the kindness to answer me, I hold you informed!

 

[SPCTRE]

who is that, why are you posting random cosplayers

 

[Six of Twelve]

I always thought it would be a mistake to match Seven of Nine with anyone aboard Voyager, or to make her "too human" and to be like "everyone else".

To do so would have erased what made her unique and interesting. She'd spent most of her life as a Borg drone - and her formative years at that. That's not something one shrugs off in a few years, if ever. Indeed, Picard spent only a few days asA Borg, and not even as a common drone, and he's never completely moved past it, so imagine how much more being Borg is to Seven.

Though she has regained sufficient humanity to function adequately in human society, a large part of her will always be Borg, perhaps even the largest part. She recognized this, which is why she chose to continue using her Borg designation of Seven of Nine and decided that resuming the name Annika Hansen would " no longer be appropriate", as that wasn't who she was any longer.

I thought it was appropriate that at the end that she and Chakotay decided to remain just good friends. I always saw the few dates they had were seen by her as mostly experimenting in experiencing human mating rituals, more than reflecting any genuine romantic feelings on her part.

The only person it would have been realistic to match her with would have been Axum, who understood what it meant to be Borg, and who would have accepted her just as she was and would not have pressured her, either subtly or overtly, to be like "everyone else". I like to think that Seven eventually found Axum again after Voyager returned to Earth.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maybe the "border of fluidic space" means that the Borg opened a hole that would not close?

 

[2takesfrakes]

You know how Leonard Nimoy had to be enticed with Spock's death scene to star in TWoK? I'm starting to wonder, now, what it would've taken to entice Mulgrew into letting Chakotay have Janeway? A movie deal? A long-term contract with a Paramount Pictures subsidiary? A credit as Producer, perhaps? She had her price - she's a Hollywood actress! She's a professional, she'd be worth it. Get some dealin' done ...

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

You know how Leonard Nimoy had to be enticed with Spock's death scene to star in TWoK? I'm starting to wonder, now, what it would've taken to entice Mulgrew into letting Chakotay have Janeway? A movie deal? A long-term contract with a Paramount Pictures subsidiary? A credit as Producer, perhaps? She had her price - she's a Hollywood actress! She's a professional, she'd be worth it. Get some dealin' done ...

Besides the fact that Mulgrew didn't want to see her character, Janeway, being weaken by a love affair with her 1st Officer - or whoever aboard... even if repeatedly, Mulgrew certainly didn't hide that her choice would have been Tom Paris with whom Janeway has more in common that with Chakotay -, I think that her working relationship with Robert Beltran* - which seem to have deteriorated troughout the season - also had to play in her deision not to let Janeway ending with Chakotay in Endgame, even though their journey was just over.

* I'm sorry to say that but Beltran was frankly far to be the charismatic Chakotay created by Jeri Taylor and his wooden performance in last seasons practically destroyed the character.

And then, just look at and listen how enthusiastic Mulgrew was when she talked about Mark Harelyk aka Krashyk (she wanted to see the actor coming back later even if Krashyk had deceived and betrayed Janeway but producers didn't follow her request), or James Read aka Jaffen (who played her boyfriend in Workforce) and how unconcerned she was about Beltran in the same time! Maybe Mulgrew really couldn't stand him anymore and in these cases, none offers - even those which would be very tempting - cannot urge you to make what you don't want to do! Yes, she is a pro but she also a stubborn and a proud woman!

 

[2takesfrakes]

Alright, Ghislaine, I see I'm going to have to do some Damage Control, here, regarding the Chakotay character and Robert Beltran's fine, nuanced performance, thereof. Unfortunately, I do have to head out, at the moment. But over the Weekend, sometime, I'll be able to type out a much more enlightened interpretation of Chakotay's legacy in the VOYAGER saga. Once we're on the same page, not only will your appreciation of the character be enhanced ... but of VOYAGER, as a whole! Lots to look forward to, I'm sure. Unfortunately, though, it'll have to wait ... but that's who Good Things come to, and all that. Until then ...

 

[Katinka]

But over the Weekend, sometime, I'll be able to type out a much more enlightened interpretation of Chakotay's legacy in the VOYAGER saga. Once we're on the same page, not only will your appreciation of the character be enhanced ... but of VOYAGER, as a whole!

Oh yes, please, I can't wait (unless, of course, you are being ironic). I think Chakotay is great and can't wait for others to confirm that

 

[Katinka]

Mulgrew didn't want to see her character, Janeway, being weaken by a love affair

I don't get that, Ghislaine, why would a love affair (or relationship) weaken her? Come on, even in this early 21st century I take offense with the notion that a woman having an affair/relationship weakens her, whereas with men it's fine and understood (along the lines of "behind every successful man there is a woman"). She would have been stronger and more believable and relatable if she had had a relationship rather than being the ice queen who doesn't need anybody and breaks every Federation rule repeatedly but the one about fraternization.

how enthusiastic Mulgrew was when she talked about Mark Harelyk aka Kashyk

- I wondered about that as well and also the fact that Beltran choose Unforgettable as his favorite episode (at least in some interview I read somewhere ...) going on about how great it was to work with Veronica Marsden. It seemed like both went out of their way to name episodes that had other love interests involved. As I said before, something must have been going on there behind the scenes (there was that rumor about an affair gone south ... that would explain a lot).

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know how Leonard Nimoy had to be enticed with Spock's death scene to star in TWoK? I'm starting to wonder, now, what it would've taken to entice Mulgrew into letting Chakotay have Janeway? A movie deal? A long-term contract with a Paramount Pictures subsidiary? A credit as Producer, perhaps? She had her price - she's a Hollywood actress! She's a professional, she'd be worth it. Get some dealin' done ...

How much to sell out feminism?

What's your price to sell out masculinity?

(I have no idea what that means!)