Why didn't Beyond do better at the Box Office?

[Shalashaska]

If the purpose of entertainment is to entertain, I'm still not sure what your argument is. Movies are designed to make people happy and entertained / excited. If that is accomplished for "the masses," I'd say the goal has been achieved, despite you personally feeling left out and under-stimulated intellectually.

Because fuck me, right?

Other. people. like. different. things.

It doesn't make you or me smarter than anyone else. Remember this part of my previous post?

They're no longer entertaining to me as they once were.

"to me".

The purpose of entertainment is to entertain as you said. What entertains you may not entertain me. Sorry, mate.

 

[Vger23]

Nice. Because people disagree with you, they are popcorn munching masses. No one groaned the three times I saw Into Darkness in the theater.

I'm totally schizo in Into Darkness.

The first 3/4 of the film were fantastic from my point-of-view. It was better than 2009, and it was shaping up to be one of the better Star Trek movie experiences ever. Then, Spock yelled "Khan" and everything from that moment forward was awful. Lots of punching (and punching... and punching) and shouting and magic blood. I know, I know...typical fan b!tching and moaning...but this time (and I'm the guy who likes TFF and Nemesis), it turned me off a little.

When I watch ID now, I actually turn the movie off after Kirk dies (a very well-played scene). I love the heck out of the rest of it though.

 

[Vger23]

Because fuck me, right?

Other. people. like. different. things.

It doesn't make you or me smarter than anyone else. Remember this part of my previous post?



"to me".

The purpose of entertainment is to entertain as you said. What entertains you may not entertain me. Sorry, mate.

Yes...in a sense..."fuck you."

You don't bring in the money. And it's a money game. The idea of any entertainment franchise is to reach (and I'd even say "impact") the maximum amount of people possible. At the movies, that's about action / adventure / thrills / fun. It's not about philosophy, conference tables, and deep contemplation about our place in the universe (and this is, in a way, admittedly sad).

If a small minority (such as yourself) consider their tastes more refined and more intellectual than the person who is looking to go to the movies for an entertaining ride, than yes...the franchise and the studio are absolutely saying "fuck you." I'm right there with them...because I enjoy it too. So your "problem" with fandom is about you.

I see the "problem" with fandom as just the opposite. It's people who are far too invested, exclusive, and dedicated to their own views of what a franchise "should be" that is the "problem with fandom." And then, those people actively trying to tear it down (see Star Trek since 2009, and Star Wars since 1998 for examples)

We indeed all like different things. But, this isn't a "let's make everyone happy" game. The game is to bring excitement and joy to as many as possible, but if you try to please everyone you end up pleasing nobody. I'm sorry you can't get any enjoyment out of escapist entertainment. Many do. That's a "you lose..." and I'm sure it's frustrating. But, that doesn't make the people who do enjoy it your enemy or below you.

Mate.

 

[Relayer1]

The actors are the best thing about these movies.

My mileage varies - Urban and Quinto are good, the rest range from O.K. (Saldana) through 'forgettable' to poor (Pegg).

Here's a shit story that makes little to no sense

Applies to Beyond too...

I don't mind seeing a Star Trek action movie, but there should be more diversity in style and substance. All three NuTrek films are heavily focussed on action. The next one shouldn't be.

A great story with 'some' action seems like progress and should be cheaper...

 

[Shalashaska]

Yes...in a sense..."fuck you."

You don't bring in the money. And it's a money game. The idea of any entertainment franchise is to reach (and I'd even say "impact") the maximum amount of people possible. At the movies, that's about action / adventure / thrills / fun. It's not about philosophy, conference tables, and deep contemplation about our place in the universe (and this is, in a way, admittedly sad).

If a small minority (such as yourself) consider their tastes more refined and more intellectual than the person who is looking to go to the movies for an entertaining ride, than yes...the franchise and the studio are absolutely saying "fuck you." I'm right there with them...because I enjoy it too. So your "problem" with fandom is about you.

I see the "problem" with fandom as just the opposite. It's people who are far too invested, exclusive, and dedicated to their own views of what a franchise "should be" that is the "problem with fandom."

We indeed all like different things. But, this isn't a "let's make everyone happy" game. The game is to bring excitement and joy to as many as possible, but if you try to please everyone you end up pleasing nobody. I'm sorry you can't get any enjoyment out of escapist entertainment. Many do. That's a "you lose..." and I'm sure it's frustrating. But, that doesn't make the people who do enjoy it your enemy or below you.

Mate.

Fuck sake, stop with the assumptions.

You're going to get the likes because people love a scapegoat, which I am not. I can enjoy action, I enjoyed Beyond, I somewhat enjoyed '09, but I think they were missing a good story.

You can have both you know. Good action, good story. I consider Casino Royale to be an action masterpiece. It's such a fun film to watch, but it takes its time and is a little more heady than Spock punching the shit out of "Khan".

I think it's the opposite here. You think of me as below you, you're so in the know in terms of how film studios work. Trust me, I know that, I'm just not going to bend over backwards for everything they do because "it makes lots of money".

 

[Yminale]

I've lived long enough to know that there is no formula for what works. STB feels like an apology to all the fans and their criticism. Sadly it wasn't enough. (Kind of reminds of me of the 4th season of Enterprise were they fixed most of the problems and no one cared). That being said I feel generally optimistic which isn't what the 50th anniversary should deliver. I hope Peg and Lin get another shot. ST: Discovery looks good. I don't care if the CGI looks cheap as long as it's functional.

 

[Relayer1]

I can enjoy action, I enjoyed Beyond, I somewhat enjoyed '09, but I think they were missing a good story.

You can have both you know. Good action, good story. I consider Casino Royale to be an action masterpiece.

I'm in complete agreement.

 

[Makarov]

I believe the reason is completely marketing and nothing to do with how good/bad the movie is. The past two movies had pretty excellent trailers and this one looked generic at best. I don't think they got the public hyped enough for it's return.

 

[Cake]

Star Trek Beyond is still Paramount's highest-grossing film for 2016 (thus far) and it hasn't even closed yet. See the chart:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/chart/?view2=release&view=company&studio=paramount.htm

Looks like a bad year for Paramount. So I doubt they will totally give up on their highest-grossing property. That's not how business works. You get rid of the dud properties and hold onto the ones with potential. They may refine Trek and make some changes, but they'll hold onto it. Now more than ever.

Not much of an achievement though, when I look at the other Paramount movies. None of them sound appealing at all. And the other movies were also all cheaper to produce, so lower expectations.

 

[ricardocube]

Most people here graded the film an A in the poll. My opinion was it wasn't perfect (what is), and the way they handled the 50th anniversary was pretty poor, but I really enjoyed it, more so the second time. I'm not going to change my mind because of box office sales. I'm going to stick up for the film. In my opinion, they made a very enjoyable and fun Star Trek film, and its up there as one of the best. I applaud the efforts they went to in the time they had. It may not be everyones cup of tea or a success at the box office, and ultimately that may change the future directions of the films in future, but I enjoyed it while it lasted. LLAP.

 

[Dream]

Terrible marketing.

All the blame should be on Paramount for not putting out earlier better looking trailers and not treating the 50th anniversary as a HUGE event.

 

[Vger23]

Fuck sake, stop with the assumptions.

You're going to get the likes because people love a scapegoat, which I am not. I can enjoy action, I enjoyed Beyond, I somewhat enjoyed '09, but I think they were missing a good story.

You can have both you know. Good action, good story. I consider Casino Royale to be an action masterpiece. It's such a fun film to watch, but it takes its time and is a little more heady than Spock punching the shit out of "Khan".

I think it's the opposite here. You think of me as below you, you're so in the know in terms of how film studios work. Trust me, I know that, I'm just not going to bend over backwards for everything they do because "it makes lots of money".

Dude, are you mad or something?

I'm going to "get the likes?"

I didn't know we were engaged in a popularity contest. I'm not trying to draw lines or build an empire against you or count how many people agree with either view point. I just think you're full of crap. It's ok. It happens sometimes. Time to shut it down and move on.

If I had known it was so easy to get you all fired up and get under your skin, I would never have engaged in the discussion.

 

[Vger23]

Most people here graded the film an A in the poll. My opinion was it wasn't perfect (what is), and the way they handled the 50th anniversary was pretty poor, but I really enjoyed it, more so the second time. I'm not going to change my mind because of box office sales. I'm going to stick up for the film. In my opinion, they made a very enjoyable and fun Star Trek film, and its up there as one of the best. I applaud the efforts they went to in the time they had. It may not be everyones cup of tea or a success at the box office, and ultimately that may change the future directions of the films in future, but I enjoyed it while it lasted. LLAP.

This is really a good point. It's easy to suddenly look at "less than expected box office" (it's insane right now to judge the film as a financial failure) and say..."oh, well, I THOUGHT I enjoyed it...but maybe I didn't / shouldn't have."

I liked (loved?) it from the get-go. I liked it better the second time. It got a lot of things "right" that the previous Kelvinverse films also got right, but it downplayed / deemphasized some of the other "less effective" stuff, and it placed new emphasis on stuff that was never really highlighted in the previous films (character interaction, some introspective moments, etc.).

I'm not going to suddenly change my mind about the movie being awesome just because it's performing somewhere below expectations (as nearly every movie did this year) any more than I'm going to change my feelings on what a steaming pile of llama shite the Transformers movies are, simply because they did well at the box office.

 

[Smellmet]

Let's talk about this 24 million second weekend...

 

[Shalashaska]

u mad bro? xDDDD

Constructive post.

You seem very close-minded and obnoxious for someone who promotes "muh opinion of the masses" so much.

As you did in that other thread shutting down someone for not being a fan of TOS, you're now shutting me down for not falling in line with your ever so honest and quintessential opinion.

I think we're done here.

 

[Vger23]

Constructive post.

You seem very close-minded and obnoxious for someone who promotes "muh opinion of the masses" so much.

As you did in that other thread shutting down someone for not being a fan of TOS, you're now shutting me down for not falling in line with your ever so honest and quintessential opinion.

I think we're done here.

Shutting someone down is how you interpret it. I'm simply challenging your statements, which I found objectionable, and you are hiding behind a victim mentality now by calling me obnoxious and bringing something up that was CLEARLY a joke in another thread (I mean...that was the very definition of a joke played for yuks).

But, I agree...it's clearly become personal now and not at all productive to anyone on the board, least of all either of us. As I said earlier...I'm sorry I got you emotional so quickly.

 

[JeffinOakland]

now now...everybody be friends

 

[Relayer1]

Let's talk about this 24 million second weekend...

So, to summarise - $60mill followed by $24mill is pretty poor but may not be disastrous once foreign (read China) box office is included. Paramount can't afford to abandon a major franchise OR spend that much money for poor returns.

Whether it's the quality of the movie, franchise fatigue, a bad year for movies or whatever, the logic seems inescapable that they'll do another and spend a lot less on it. We're not talking straight to DVD here, but maybe an under $100mill budget ?

What would that mean ? Certainly less flashy effects and battles, less 'spectacle'. Maybe more planet based, certainly more plot-centric, maybe even a little wordy in places. Save the $ for the couple of effects pieces still needed. Even reuse the soundtracks from the previous three movies. Film somewhere cheap and you're there...

So what do you need to make that kind of film work ? A great script and a great cast.

We've not had a great script yet, and there is little indication that anyone to do with the three so far can produce one.

Cast ? Urban and Quinto excepted, they're unimpressive. There were signs in Beyond that Pine was coming into his roll a little more (besides, you need Kirk) so I'd stick with the 'big three' and sideline the others somewhat, Pegg particularly.

It could produce a decent movie, but I'm not overconfident.

 

[Visitor1982]

Strangely enough I feel a smaller budget will probably mean a better movie (less action and special effects, more story, talking, character moments etc.).

 

[Dream]

The budgets for these last two Trek movies have really gotten out of hand. They should go back to Wrath of Khan movies with lower budgets, the movies would make about the same even with less CGI or explosions.