Spoilers ST: Beyond - Surprising fact about Sulu

[DimesDan]

I am so far only judging by other people's comments. From what I'm reading it sounds like the marriage was clear if you paid attention to the details that added up to the logical conclusion. I'm not sure if it was clear or not. It does sound like an unobservant person might have missed it.

Oh don't do a @Christopher (like he did with Batman Vs Superman) and judge the film (and comment on it at great length) on what others say. Go and watch it, not sure if you'll like the interaction, but some of the more suitable clues they're in a relationship are there and they are nice too see.

Maybe it had something to do with the German dubbed version I saw? They were using terms of endearment right from the point when Spiner woke up from the coma.

They were like that in the "Original" English version too.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe it had something to do with the German dubbed version I saw? They were using terms of endearment right from the point when Spiner woke up from the coma.

I don't remember any terms of endearment being used in the English version. There's a lot of things which become obvious in hindsight that they were always meant to be a couple, like the doctor always leaving flowers in Spiner's room, or Spiner getting upset at the doctor for allowing him to walk around pantsless.

Or maybe I am just slow on the uptake? To be fair, their implied relationship is a minor part of the movie overall.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think there were a couple of background extras kissing in Yorktown, because there are extras credited as "Kissing Guy" and "Kissing Girl."

That was the blue-shirted Asian Enterprise crewman, also in the Captain's Log montage, whom some fan reviewers thought was depicting a bisexual Sulu cheating on his husband.

 

[Christopher]

That was the blue-shirted Asian Enterprise crewman, also in the Captain's Log montage, whom some fan reviewers thought was depicting a bisexual Sulu cheating on his husband.

Ohh, good grief.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Ohh, good grief.

I'm red/green colourblind, but that error is a doozy. I attempted to correct several people determined to stick by their first impression.

 

[Kor]

That's weird. The actor did not even look like John Cho! I don't understand why some find it so hard to distinguish different individuals of another race. I've encountered this in real life, too, not just when it comes to actors in movies. An Asian friend of mine was able to use his cousin's gym membership card (with photo) to get in the gym because the people at the desk couldn't tell the difference.

Kor

 

[Jinn]

That's weird. The actor did not even look like John Cho! I don't understand why some find it so hard to distinguish different individuals of another race

For some reason I have a problem with dinstinguishing men wearing suits in movies that I don't know or that aren't part of a franchise.

 

[Therin of Andor]

For some reason I have a problem with dinstinguishing men wearing suits in movies that I don't know or that aren't part of a franchise.

I must admit, shows like "Law and Order" and "CSI", where any subplots involving the main ensemble casts' personal lives are not immediately obvious when viewing random episodes, took me a looong time to be able to refer to the characters by name.

 

[Jinn]

Is there any official source for the "books aren't allowed to reference the new movies because license" thing?

 

[Desert Kris]

On the one hand, I feel dismayed that people don't seem to be paying attention too well, and making the kind of assumptions that I did not make after only seeing the movie one time (so far). I don't even remember this crew member people are seeing, but I didn't mistake anyone for Sulu, the same way I didn't overthink the joke about the jewelry Spock gave to Uhura as being either safe or dangerous.

On the other hand, the trailers had that scene about a crewmember in gold uniform getting kicked out of a female crewmember's quarters, and based on the quick glimpse in the trailer (without pausing or going frame-by-frame) made the assumption it was Chris Pine as Kirk. Seeing the same scene in the movie, it's on the big screen and it doesn't jump cut...so I was surprised to see that it was Chekov. It was a nice surprise, but I didn't overthinking it.

Another movie I watched recently was The Man From UNCLE, and I kept thinking that the Russian character looked like Michael Fassbender for some reason. I couldn't shake it from my head, yet while he's onscreen for extended periods of time, it's clear he doesn't look that way. Our minds play tricks on us, I guess.

What is exasperating, though, is fans who are actively looking for things they don't like, and allowing themselves to be led along by a negatively inflected confirmation bias, and then are slow to relinquish a false impression that they believe is true.

 

[The Wormhole]

Is there any official source for the "books aren't allowed to reference the new movies because license" thing?

Authors who post on this very forum like Christopher and Dayton Ward have confirmed it is true.

 

[tomswift2002]

The camera pans over Sulu's console with a picture of his daughter and we also see his wedding ring (which wasn't there in the previous two films).
Then we see a man holding his daughter, they share an embrace and the man also has a visible wedding band.
It was fairly obvious to me what was what.

I don't recall seeing a wedding ring on Sulu. But still, having a wedding ring on doesn't mean that he's married to the guy. I've known guys that have worn wedding rings for years after their wives were killed in an accident because it reminds them of the good times they had. And I've called up an image of Sulu's "husband" and to me he looks like Sulu's brother: perhaps Sulu took after his mother while his brother took more after their father. I've seen brothers in real life that some would say were not related, but they both had the same mother and father.

 

[Idran]

I don't recall seeing a wedding ring on Sulu. But still, having a wedding ring on doesn't mean that he's married to the guy. I've known guys that have worn wedding rings for years after their wives were killed in an accident because it reminds them of the good times they had. And I've called up an image of Sulu's "husband" and to me he looks like Sulu's brother: perhaps Sulu took after his mother while his brother took more after their father. I've seen brothers in real life that some would say were not related, but they both had the same mother and father.

Why did you put the word husband there in quotes? Are you trying to argue that that wasn't Sulu's husband, that Sulu wasn't actually gay in the movie? From your original post it sounded more like you were just saying it wasn't blatant, are you now saying that it wasn't even true in the first place from your perspective?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ring + loving relationship + child = %70 Husband.

1. Engagement ring.

2. Promise Ring.

3. That dude with the kid might have been Sulu's mistress with his love child. There could be a husband or/and wife or 3 back on Earth.

4. The ring could be from an expired relationship or dead spouse. As in "Shit I hope my boyfriend doesn't die like my wife/husband already did a couple years ago!"

5. Exactly what constitutes marriage in a future that frowns on god, and is supposed to be legally binding "galactically"? Once Enterprise leaves Federaiton space and Federaiton law no longer applies, thereafter all marriages and other legal contracts enter into a legal grey area, unless there's a treaty. Enterprise is of course Federation soil, just as an Embassy is soil native to whoever owns said Embassy, but literally legally, it's not cheating if you're in the Neutral Zone.

...

The writers punked out. They left an expanse of wiggle room, so that the homophobes would not rage against the dying of heterodominance, as the Homoprides (that can't be right?) simultaneously cheered and funked out during a victory party.

Say "husband" (hey look! I did it too!) or it's an empty gesture.

Show those two men kissing, or the fuckers win.

Fuck the fucking fuckers.

 

[Idran]

5. Exactly what constitutes marriage in a future that frowns on god, and is supposed to be legally binding "galactically"? Once Enterprise leaves Federaiton space and Federaiton law no longer applies, thereafter all marriages and other legal contracts enter into a legal grey area, unless there's a treaty. Enterprise is of course Federation soil, just as an Embassy is soil native to whoever owns said Embassy, but literally legally, it's not cheating if you're in the Neutral Zone.

Two things.

1) Secular marriage exists.
2) Since when has it ever been the case in any system of law at all that contracts aren't valid when you leave the nation in which the contract was made? If you sail into international waters, that doesn't actually mean that you're outside the reach of law. There is no actual legal grey area there. And if I make some sort of contract with you, and we both fly to another country whose contract law doesn't cover it or we head into international waters, our contract is still in legal force.

(And that thing about "an Embassy is soil native to whoever owns said embassy" is a common misconception too, it's also not actually true.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

I wasn't saying that they're not husbands.

I was saying that the producers were assholes for not making it clearer that they were husbands.

We are so far past metaphors and allegories it is not funny.

 

[tomswift2002]

Why did you put the word husband there in quotes? Are you trying to argue that that wasn't Sulu's husband, that Sulu wasn't actually gay in the movie? From your original post it sounded more like you were just saying it wasn't blatant, are you now saying that it wasn't even true in the first place from your perspective?

As I said in my first post the character is left very open-ended, since if you hadn't heard they were suppose to be gay, then it looks like Sulu is meeting his brother and niece, who he is very fond of.

As for future movies, depending on who is writing them, I can see them easily saying that Sulu's brother and niece still live on the station.

At the same time future movies could say that it is his husband and daughter who are living on the station.

In "Beyond", even if they'd had a throw-away line in the party scene where Sulu said to someone, like Uhura and Spock "Have you met my brother?" or "Have you met my husband?" But, no there was no line, and even the scene's the guy was in could've easily have ended up on the editing room floor as they didn't add anything to the movie's plot.

 

[Christopher]

As I said in my first post the character is left very open-ended, since if you hadn't heard they were suppose to be gay, then it looks like Sulu is meeting his brother and niece, who he is very fond of.

That depends on what you're preconditioned to assume. I've heard a number of people say that they immediately recognized it as a marital relationship even with no prior information. I mean, really, why in the hell would Sulu be more likely to keep a picture of his niece on his console and stare lovingly at it than a picture of his daughter?

 

[borgboy]

Regardless of how obvious the relationship on screen was, TPTB made announcements that Sulu had a husband. There's no way they'd be able to back out of that without it causing a lot of bad PR.

 

[Idran]

Yeah, I'm wondering how you can see them easily establishing that, tomswift. If you're talking just in the screenplay itself then I guess so, but how easy or hard it would be would depend on a lot more than figuring out how to break the story for something that had the level of coverage this did. I'm not even sure they'd be allowed to by the studio.